Fushigi

[Etrocal]

Fushigi

This isa really specific and obscure request, and I don't even think this is the right place to ask this, but for a short film I'm making (a retelling of the Red Balloon,) I need a handful of flying Fushigi balls, those stupid little contact juggling gimmicks. https://www.fushigiball.com/default.aspx?mid=742426

In any circumstance, I need to be able to create them as close to perfectly as I can, and then plug them into the footage. Normally I'd spend however long it takes playing around with the texture system, but I'm in a real time crunch, so if anybody could help me out, that'd be greatly appreciated.

 

[DarthSidious05]

This isa really specific and obscure request, and I don't even think this is the right place to ask this, but for a short film I'm making (a retelling of the Red Balloon,) I need a handful of flying Fushigi balls, those stupid little contact juggling gimmicks.

In any circumstance, I need to be able to create them as close to perfectly as I can, and then plug them into the footage. Normally I'd spend however long it takes playing around with the texture system, but I'm in a real time crunch, so if anybody could help me out, that'd be greatly appreciated.

Are you asking for a computer modeled Fushigi or the actual toy? (as seen on Cubo channel during the Night Owl He-Man Filmation series during every commercial break) I'm guessing the model with textures is what you need. I'm unable to help as I'm no expert 3D modeller on real life objects, but perhaps someone else could offer suggestions.

I've seen it at Target stores last week before Christmas in the As Seen on TV section if you need one in a bind.
From the Fushigi Ball Commercial, "I love it. Me too!!" It looks interesting anyway...

 

[Etrocal]

Yeah, I was a little vague about that. No, I actually have the toy, but I need a 3d model of it to plug into the footage. Obviously modeling it is easy, but the textures are the hard part. I have something that looks fairly good, but I need something a little close to perfection.

 

[frank beckmann]

I don´t get it.
Isn´t it just an acrylic ball with a specific index of refraction?

Acrylic glass 1.490 - 1.492
Polycarbonate 1.584 - 1.586

No?

Cheers
Frank

 

[SurfingAlien]

Isn´t it just an acrylic ball with a specific index of refraction?

from the website FAQs it should be "a (reflective) ball into a (transparent/acrylic) ball"... not sure what's the one that is closer to reality though (Shadowmat Plane Visible in Reflections ON/OFF)

side note: do you know how to get decent caustics from a scene like that, Frank?

cheers,
Alessandro

 

[frank beckmann]

from the website FAQs it should be "a (reflective) ball into a (transparent/acrylic) ball"... not sure what's the one that is closer to reality though (Shadowmat Plane Visible in Reflections ON/OFF)

From what I get at the stores and videos it´s just an ordinary acrylic ball.

side note: do you know how to get decent caustics from a scene like that, Frank?

If you have 2 balls into one another I think you won´t get any caustics at all.
Need any?

Cheers
Frank

 

[SurfingAlien]

If you have 2 balls into one another I think you won´t get any caustics at all.
Need any?

are you saying that the plane with shadowmat cannot catch them (I'm just realizing it wasn't a smart question... ) or that the inner ball will block them out?

anyways, mine was more a general question... I cannot get decent caustics from any daylight lit scene

thanks,
A

P.S.: I watched the videos again... they still seem 2 balls one into another to me (but I wouldn't start a flamewar about that here... :tongue: )

 

[frank beckmann]

are you saying that the plane with shadowmat cannot catch them (I'm just realizing it wasn't a smart question... ) or that the inner ball will block them out?

anyways, mine was more a general question... I cannot get decent caustics from any daylight lit scene

You need:
A: a decent photon canon
B: a translucent object with an imperfect surface. (computer generated massive spheres are way too perfect to spread the rays interestingly. Nothing than a glowing spot will appear - whatever your adjustments will be.
And I don´t think the "shadowmat" is able to catch caustics 100% - just a weak amount if any.

P.S.: I watched the videos again... they still seem 2 balls one into another to me (but I wouldn't start a flamewar about that here... :tongue: )

http://www.amazon.com/Contact-Juggling-Ball-Acrylic-CLEAR/dp/B002MA025O/ref=pd_sbs_t_5


Cheers
Frank

 

[SurfingAlien]

You need:
A: a decent photon canon
...

so are you using a dedicated "pure photon light" here or is the HDRI(?) that creates those caustics?
I ask because some renderers like Lux for example can generate caustics (well, maybe not so strong) from general/diffuse lights like sunsky or HDRI too...

sorry to hijack the thread btw...:redface:

cheers,
Alessandro

 

[frank beckmann]

I have to revise a bit and byte. :redface: Martin told me he was able to get caustics from a HDRI plus radiosity only - so I was going on to make some further tests.
When you don´t mind hefty rendertimes you know from Luxrender you can adjust the Irradiance cache in a way it will be catch some noticeable caustics along with "detail detection" and a HDRI containing a really bright sun. Most are reflective I guess - refractive ones I can´t determine.

Cheers
Frank

 

[SurfingAlien]

I have to revise a bit and byte. :redface: Martin told me he was able to get caustics from a HDRI plus radiosity only - so I was going on to make some further tests.
When you don´t mind hefty rendertimes you know from Luxrender you can adjust the Irradiance cache in a way it will be catch some noticeable caustics along with "detail detection" and a HDRI containing a really bright sun. Most are reflective I guess - refractive ones I can´t determine.

Cheers
Frank

now that's very interesting... do you mind sharing your Radiosity and Caustic setting Frank?

I'm doing some experiments with an even more difficult scene... (still nothing worth to share though :frown: )

cheers,
Alessandro

 

[Etrocal]

Wow, I was gone all day and didn't expect this many responses to this, thanks for that.

My biggest problem with the Fushigi though, (and yes, it is a ball in a ball,) is to get it to render properly with a transparent background. If you add the hdri image, turn it off for the background, and lower the transparency int he camera, when you render it the Fushigi still seems to be the color of the background, even if the transparency is off. As for caustics, I don't really need anything special, most shadows will be blurry and I can just add those in post (I have a couple Fushigi's for props, so the close-ups will be real ones,) so I only need the CG ones for when they're flying around. So if anyone knows what's going on with that rendering problem though, that seems to be the things I can't work around.

 

[SurfingAlien]

My biggest problem with the Fushigi though, (and yes, it is a ball in a ball,) is to get it to render properly with a transparent background. If you add the hdri image, turn it off for the background, and lower the transparency int he camera, when you render it the Fushigi still seems to be the color of the background, even if the transparency is off. [...] So if anyone knows what's going on with that rendering problem though, that seems to be the things I can't work around.

maybe seeing what you get could help us helping you...?

 

[frank beckmann]

My biggest problem with the Fushigi though,...is to get it to render properly with a transparent background. .....So if anyone knows what's going on with that rendering problem though, that seems to be the things I can't work around.

Then you´re in the need of a good reading here: http://www.cheetah3d.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5320

now that's very interesting... do you mind sharing your Radiosity and Caustic setting Frank?

I'm doing some experiments with an even more difficult scene... (still nothing worth to share though :frown: )

No caustic tag involved - just radiosity: I had the Error level at something like 0,02, Rmin: 1,5 and Rmax: 8,0, Detail detection on.
I´m still in doubt it´ll work on complex scenes.

Cheers
Frank

 

[Etrocal]

Well, I'm thoroughly embarrassed not at the fact that I didn't know what I was doing (still, thanks for that link, Frank,) but that I failed to recognize that transparency is represented as gray, and I thought that was actual coloration. Seems like that should put everything together, yeah. Hopefully I'll be able to come back with some results in the near future.