Crumple Modifier thoughts

gsb

Active member
Hello,

Yesterday I noticed something I had not noticed before about an object with a Crumple Modifier. I reopened a file I had been working on months ago and rendered it…

Checking the newly rendered image against the previous renders from the file, I couldn't figure out why the crumpled surface in the new render was not the same as in the previous render. My first thought was that I had changed something and had not noted the change and/or had not rendered it.

There was never any animation work done with the file. Nothing is key-framed.

Longer story shorter…

To replicate the behavior in a file that is post-able, I created a simple new file.

Skylight
A Disc with a highly reflective material, a Crumple Modifier, and a Subdivision Modifier
A Sphere with a default material -- helps to show difference in disc surface

Closing and reopening the file does not result in there being any difference between the resulting renders.

However, quitting and restarting C3D make a significant difference.

The non-consistent results of the Crumple Modifier on the Disc are the same with either v7.51 or the current v8 beta.

Quitting and restarting C3D ten times results in 10 different crumpled surfaces. I have not tried quitting and restarting C3D enough to ever have a render match a previous render.

Perhaps a random seed is generated for the Crumple modifier when C3D is first started? And that random seed is not saved with the file to preserve the resulting crumple between restarting?

The resulting animation from renders after quitting and restarting C3D seems rather different than the animation results from key-framing the exposed Crumple Modifier parameters. If a random seed is being generated, it seems that would be a useful parameter to be stored in the file and then to be able to regenerate a new seed upon request.

Anyone have any insight/experience/thoughts? Is this expected behavior? Am I missing something very obvious? I’ll post the simple file if it is helpful.

thanks and cheers,
gsb
 
Can´t replicate this behaviour. Only weird thing is after a render the file turns into a non-saved status.
Can you upload an example file?
 
Thanks for checking Frank. Here is it

cheers,
gsb
 

Attachments

  • crumple changing.zip
    14.1 KB · Views: 101
No matter what: Save/no save after render: no change:

RenderCrumble.gif
 
Wow. Thanks for checking that out Frank…

Hmmm, seems I have a unique puzzle.

I’ll post back when I figure it all out.

Cheers,
gsb
 
No idea how to dig deeper. I´m still on M1/BigSur. Do you get the same message when closing the file after a finished rendering about "Save/non save/Cancel?
 
No idea how to dig deeper. I´m still on M1/BigSur. Do you get the same message when closing the file after a finished rendering about "Save/non save/Cancel?
No message concerns, just the different results from rendering the unchanged file after quitting and restarting C3D.

Oh, but yes, the file is, as you noted, in an un-saved state after rendering. So closing or quitting at that point, if not saved first, the save changes dialog is presented.

This is running with Ventura on a 2019 MacPro

gsb
 
tried on another Mac. Intel MBP, also running Ventura. I’ll fire up an older box and give it a try.

gsb
 
Ok… I’ve now tried it on a 2013 MacPro running Mojave with decidedly different results.

There are no dancing Crumples after quitting and relaunching C3D.

SO, there seems to be some different interaction between Cheetah and Ventura.

An interesting aside…

I see the render time on your M1/Big Sur box was ~19 seconds. On my 2019 MBP it was 16 seconds. On my 2019 MacPro it was 9 seconds. On my 2013 MacPro it was 20 seconds. All cases C3D had access to all CPU cores.

Thanks again Frank for taking a look at it.

Cheers,
gsb
 
Last edited:
* This inconsistency can also be replicated by defining a new crumple modifier. The same / identical parameters give a significantly different wave pattern (sometimes ?) with macos Ventura 13.5.
* There is some information on the Perlin Noise Function on the en:WP. The article includes code in C of the function.
 
This inconsistency can also be replicated by defining a new crumple modifier. The same / identical parameters give a significantly different wave pattern (sometimes ?) with macos Ventura 13.5.

Thanks Helmut for this experiment. I’ll try this when I’m back to my Mac.

gsb
 
* This inconsistency can also be replicated by defining a new crumple modifier. The same / identical parameters give a significantly different wave pattern (sometimes ?) with macos Ventura 13.5.
* There is some information on the Perlin Noise Function on the en:WP. The article includes code in C of the function.

Hello,

I have attempted to recreate the differing crumple results by…

-Turning off the existing modifier

-Adding a new Crumple Modifier

-Setting the same parameters (x, y, z coordinates; x, y, z rotation; x, y, z scale; offset; frequency).

Result: The rendering gives the SAME crumples every time.

SO, for my boxes running Ventura (13.4), only quitting and relaunching C3D gives me different rendered crumples.

thanks and cheers,
gsb
 
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