Bah, Hamburg (to paraphrase the late Charlie Dickens and Ebenezer Scrooge)

Bah, Hamburg (to paraphrase the late Charlie Dickens and Ebenezer Scrooge)

* I am in the process of modelling a rather complex Baroque church in Hamburg which I have not (yet) seen. The geometry is quite different from the Baroque I know (Italian and Central European).

* Question:
* The windows in the external walls have splayed / non-orthogonal reveals (see part of the plan, showing apsis and transept), meaning that the inner opening is a bit larger than the outer opening and / or that it is offset from a right angle to maximise insolation / illumination.
* I have started out with a polyplane (a compound spline, consisting of an outer rectangular “panel” plus the inner spline representing the window´s edges). Added to that is a shell to give the wall´s thickness. Making the object editable plus tweaking the inner edges with the transform widget works, of course.
* I would like to keep the splines “alive” so I can use them for the window itself and for the profiled moulding of the “frames” around the openings. Clearly, if I copy & paste / resolve the compound spline before making the object editable this is no hassle either.
* Essentially, this solves the problem,but:
? Can somebody think of a more flexible / non-destructive method to achieve the same result ? Fixing a topological error in the above concept is a PITA, as I have to start from scratch again. Unfortunately, the spline interpolator (Todd´s Loft .js) does not handle compound splines / creates artefacts as it ignores points of hard interpolation. As the plan indicates, angles and displacement are by no means constant. The architect, presumably, has inhaled copious amounts of francincense before fumbling for his compass and straight edge :mrgreen:
* I don´t want to use Booleans.
* Lacking any proper plans in the moment I also want to allow for some freedom to edit in the future.

* Thank you for any ideas

* For anybody who does know the building: Yes, there are quite a few incorrect details. I have not found a cross section in the internet and the published photos ignore all the tricky bits. Inter-library-loans are costly and dicey. This is not a paid project but just an attempt to analyse the spatial concepts.
 

Attachments

  • SS00.png
    SS00.png
    397.7 KB · Views: 521
  • SS01.png
    SS01.png
    144.5 KB · Views: 515
Oops

Sorry: That is the plan for the upper part of the structure. In the lower part there are just two small windows and a portal in the center, in the upper part ther are two large arched / not-quite-symmetrical windows separated by a mullion.
 

Attachments

  • Screen Shot 2015-02-15 at 19.57.38.png
    Screen Shot 2015-02-15 at 19.57.38.png
    177.8 KB · Views: 491
Last edited:
Thank you Frank.
When in Hamburg I may have a chat with the custodians (?) if I am allowed to view the plans (there are extant drawings by Ernst Georg Sonnin, it seems; presumably digitalised). After all, I will see the top of the Michel from “my” balcony:rolleyes:
Maybe they tolerate a non-theist / non-practising Catholic :evil: from the Deep South.

PS2: I don´t want to use Booleans because I would have to calculate (via a bunch of trig.functions) each individual Boo topology. More PITA…

Servus aus Wien
PS: Needless to say, a copy of the .jas will be available to you in June.
 
Not sure if I understand the "mission" here. :mrgreen:
Maybe you could crop the splines into smaller chunks and extrude them with 2 angles - if this is what you´re after.

Cheers
Frank
 

Attachments

  • ShiftedWindows.jas.zip
    5.7 KB · Views: 292
  • ShiftedWindows.jpeg
    ShiftedWindows.jpeg
    28.4 KB · Views: 484
Thank you (I will need it) :smile:
Yep, the Extrude creator via any combination of X/Y/Z allows me to define the angular displacement (including the shell dimension of the wall) required. However, to resize the interior dimensions of the windows (splayed reveals) I still need an editable mesh which I would like to avoid.
The second problem (in my questionable method of compound splines) is that I can´t separate the “frame” spline from the “window” spline when extruding, so all of the outer frames of the window panels get equally skewed by the n° angularity of the extrusion.

Example in the attached screenshot:
* Right window block: Compound spline (in green) plus extrusion, rectilinear. The outer and inner openings (= splines) of the windows are identical.
* Left window block: Made editable, window outline (in red) selected and modified. The reveal / window sill is now splayed.

Actually, I think that the “make editable and modify dimensions” method is quite OK, anyway. There are only 3 different window shapes plus the portals on the “ground floor” where the reveals are splayed. They have different horizontal offsets but the vertical displacements seem identical.
 

Attachments

  • Screen Shot 2015-02-15 at 23.38.07.png
    Screen Shot 2015-02-15 at 23.38.07.png
    105.2 KB · Views: 462
Last edited:
* I am in the process of modelling a rather complex Baroque church in Hamburg which I have not (yet) seen. The geometry is quite different from the Baroque I know (Italian and Central European).

I love this sort of work and it is exactly the kind of thing I am using to teach myself C3D editing.

I'm sorry that I don't have an answer for you but I hope you will keep us informed of your progress!
 
Well, there are no real problems. Quite a few tricky bits, but nothing Cheetah 3D can´t handle :tongue:
 

Attachments

  • SS01.png
    SS01.png
    432.3 KB · Views: 419
More Humbug...

* Well, apart from the proper detailing of the windows in the external walls (which I probably will not model until I have actually seen the building and a few plans, if allowed) most of the tricky bits are completed. I will have to wander around with a camera on site to find out how the architect solved some of the geometry of domed cloister and cross vaults and other stuff which I have never seen anywhere else. As mentioned before, there are no photos of the nooks and crannies.
* Of course, there are a fair number of fiddly and time consuming donkey jobs, but - without looking closely - this is a bearable first draft. Let´s see what the Hanseatic natives say.

* Comments on the windows (my original question): I stuck with my concept of compound splines + polyplane + shell.
* This provides me with the advantages of:
1 making the object editable and then resizing the inner edges to allow for the splayed reveals
2 possibly using the original “inner” spline as a constructor for the mouldings / mullion stuff
3 possibly using that to generate the frame and the rectilinear iron gratings for the window proper
4 most importantly, I have stuck the window blocks (there is just the single window and the double symmetric window) into particle meshes and have just two “master instances” to modify. Whilst modeling the points 2 and 3 will be a fussy job of fine-tuning, I only have to do that twice and then the particle mesh does all the rest. The reveals have to be done individually, but that is rather trivial.

* Actually, this was good fun :tongue: I definitely don´t enjoy the boring bits, but as I kept the concepts flexible I had to backtrack just once since starting a couple of weeks ago.
 

Attachments

  • Screen Shot 2015-02-19 at 21.10.08.png
    Screen Shot 2015-02-19 at 21.10.08.png
    362.5 KB · Views: 303
  • Screen Shot 2015-02-19 at 21.12.33.png
    Screen Shot 2015-02-19 at 21.12.33.png
    418.5 KB · Views: 304
  • Screen Shot 2015-02-19 at 21.14.36.png
    Screen Shot 2015-02-19 at 21.14.36.png
    385.5 KB · Views: 319
  • Screen Shot 2015-02-19 at 21.23.02.png
    Screen Shot 2015-02-19 at 21.23.02.png
    256.6 KB · Views: 307
PS: If a few people are interested, I can compile a bit of a tute on this project. I am on model #94 (admittedly, there are a few gaps in between, but I should have all the stages of progressing through various design phases).

Servus from Vienna
 

Attachments

  • Screen Shot 2015-02-19 at 21.52.41.png
    Screen Shot 2015-02-19 at 21.52.41.png
    150 KB · Views: 300
@ ZooHead:
Are you curious about the windows (compound splines and particle meshes)?
If so, I can cobble together a quick tutorial.
I think that is the only tricky bit in the whole model:tongue:
 
@ ZooHead:
Are you curious about the windows (compound splines and particle meshes)?
If so, I can cobble together a quick tutorial.
I think that is the only tricky bit in the whole model:tongue:

Frankly, I'm curious as to when you sleep...
 
Frankly, I'm curious as to when you sleep...

He sleeps while you and I are awake, assuming you reside in the US, like me.
I am an Austrian expatriate and lived most of my life in Vienna, Austria, Europe - GMT + 1:00 - where I believe Helmut lives.
 
Back
Top