Texture gradient animation
- Thread starter jeffcase
- Start date
Helmut
0
After a few tests:
It seems that you are right. Editing the component colors of the gradient node between time t1 and t2 simply replaces the settings of t1 with the altered settings of t2. The t1 settings are "forgotten".
Maybe you can replace the gradient filter with a directional texture to achieve a similar result. The directional node seems to function as expected in an animation.
Maybe the good Doctor could have a look at this?
It seems that you are right. Editing the component colors of the gradient node between time t1 and t2 simply replaces the settings of t1 with the altered settings of t2. The t1 settings are "forgotten".
Maybe you can replace the gradient filter with a directional texture to achieve a similar result. The directional node seems to function as expected in an animation.
Maybe the good Doctor could have a look at this?
Unfortunately not yet ready.
Looking for a workaround?
Cheers
Frank
jeffcase
0
Thanks Frank. I use the hot-key cmd-opt "+" and cmd-opt "-" to zoom in and out respectively.
However as you know, the underlying precision is still the same as the base video rez - it's just an up-sampled view. By setting the gradient editor's image view parameter to allow for autoresizing to the parent view, the amount of pixels available for mouse movement increases & decreases accordingly. This would allow greater precision obtainable from a mouse movement of one pixel.
FYI I'm using DEM grayscale files (Digital Elevation Map) and some customized gradient mapping, modifying the default "Planet" material in Cheetah3D. Some mesh enhancements from a displacement modifier and shading enhancements by bump mapping the texture, are obtained using the same DEM files. I have managed to render some interesting (albeit primitive) results. If there is interest, I can post a sample of my progress.
Some animation of the gradient is possible via it's mix property, however it's linear to a single gradient as it stands now. Keyframing at certain points would allow a better mapping through course of the animation. Overall real estate gain at the view level would increase the precision of the actual gradient used for mapping the texture as well.
Not being very experienced with advanced 3D techniques, if anybody has a "Hey noob, take a look at this", please pass it on.
Tx,
Jeff
However as you know, the underlying precision is still the same as the base video rez - it's just an up-sampled view. By setting the gradient editor's image view parameter to allow for autoresizing to the parent view, the amount of pixels available for mouse movement increases & decreases accordingly. This would allow greater precision obtainable from a mouse movement of one pixel.
FYI I'm using DEM grayscale files (Digital Elevation Map) and some customized gradient mapping, modifying the default "Planet" material in Cheetah3D. Some mesh enhancements from a displacement modifier and shading enhancements by bump mapping the texture, are obtained using the same DEM files. I have managed to render some interesting (albeit primitive) results. If there is interest, I can post a sample of my progress.
Some animation of the gradient is possible via it's mix property, however it's linear to a single gradient as it stands now. Keyframing at certain points would allow a better mapping through course of the animation. Overall real estate gain at the view level would increase the precision of the actual gradient used for mapping the texture as well.
Not being very experienced with advanced 3D techniques, if anybody has a "Hey noob, take a look at this", please pass it on.
Tx,
Jeff
I´m quite experienced in rendering tons of DEM files using Bryce in my former life. And we have still some admirable users doing so in Cheetah3d like: http://www.cheetah3d.com/forum/showthread.php?p=61677
I´m still not sure how an animatable gradient node will help you but it´s your game.
I picked some from my "humble" experience back in the years to your amusement:
http://www.cheetah3d.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4633&postcount=13
http://www.cheetah3d.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4522&page=2#top
And be sure I know the MacOSX-window-zoom is kinda fake - but if it´s your wish go here: http://www.cheetah3d.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=13
and leave a mark.
Cheers
Frank
I´m still not sure how an animatable gradient node will help you but it´s your game.
I picked some from my "humble" experience back in the years to your amusement:
http://www.cheetah3d.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4633&postcount=13
http://www.cheetah3d.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4522&page=2#top
And be sure I know the MacOSX-window-zoom is kinda fake - but if it´s your wish go here: http://www.cheetah3d.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=13
and leave a mark.
Cheers
Frank
So if you replace the gradient with an image node and a little node jutsu you can animate gradients by using a UV lookup trick (you set the scale to nearly 0, and the use the usual gradient input as U (or V) and time as V (or U). If that doesn't make sense I can put together an example.
What this doesn't help with is figuring out how to DRAW the gradient in question. A simple transition where the points in the gradient don't move but merely change color is very easy, but if you want to change the gradient's contours over time, drawing a (smooth) source image could be a pain (Illustrator's mesh gradients would probably be helpful).
What this doesn't help with is figuring out how to DRAW the gradient in question. A simple transition where the points in the gradient don't move but merely change color is very easy, but if you want to change the gradient's contours over time, drawing a (smooth) source image could be a pain (Illustrator's mesh gradients would probably be helpful).
jeffcase
0
Frank: thanks for the links to more ideas on this.
podperson: I would love to see an example of your technique.
Being a noob, my techniques are primitive at best. Examples of technique are priceless. I continue to learn form your responses on this site in the past. Thank you both for your attention to this, and for all you do for Cheetah users.
Jeff
podperson: I would love to see an example of your technique.
Being a noob, my techniques are primitive at best. Examples of technique are priceless. I continue to learn form your responses on this site in the past. Thank you both for your attention to this, and for all you do for Cheetah users.
Jeff
One last from the former thread: http://www.cheetah3d.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4610&postcount=8
Cheers
Frank
Cheers
Frank
jeffcase
0
Thanks Frank. I'm sure you will have a better technique. But the examples I have found so far, aren't quite like my project. So... after searching this site for similar examples, I decided to post a sample of my progress. A picture is worth...
This is not to scale and indeed has much artistic license. The DEM files used are the only "real" part of the scene. The gradient animation is achieved by modifying the "mix" value in the start & end key-frames of DEM texture applied to the gradient. If I could change the gradient over time instead of just shifting it, mountains & oceans could be better.
Again I don't know if my technique is proper for the endeavor - and I struggle with terms/concepts as I muddle through. But here is a 1fps low rez sample of the results and a couple of screen caps of the gradient/DEM properties. When rendered in HD, the details show some interesting stuff.
Before I put in a wish for something nobody else wants, I would like to know if what I'm trying to do is better done another way.
Any and all input is appreciated.
TIA,
Jeff
This is not to scale and indeed has much artistic license. The DEM files used are the only "real" part of the scene. The gradient animation is achieved by modifying the "mix" value in the start & end key-frames of DEM texture applied to the gradient. If I could change the gradient over time instead of just shifting it, mountains & oceans could be better.
Again I don't know if my technique is proper for the endeavor - and I struggle with terms/concepts as I muddle through. But here is a 1fps low rez sample of the results and a couple of screen caps of the gradient/DEM properties. When rendered in HD, the details show some interesting stuff.
Before I put in a wish for something nobody else wants, I would like to know if what I'm trying to do is better done another way.
Any and all input is appreciated.
TIA,
Jeff
Attachments
Rene66
0
Thanks for the video - and yes it does convey what you want more clearly. I would have to do some testing on my own, but appears that a solution could be created with some math nodes. Basically here is the theory (I'll have to work on this later. The gradient appears to be the same progression of colors - AND - I am assuming you are using a greyscale image for you height map
What you need is to do compress and modulate the greyscale data BEFORE it points to the gradient map - and using math nodes that CAN be animated with keyframes to change over time.
I have to conduct some of my own experiments AND work out the math so I can provide a sample. - to be continued
What you need is to do compress and modulate the greyscale data BEFORE it points to the gradient map - and using math nodes that CAN be animated with keyframes to change over time.
I have to conduct some of my own experiments AND work out the math so I can provide a sample. - to be continued
jeffcase
0
I have attached a screen cap of the node editor for my material. There does not seem to be a facility to change the gradient, only reposition it. I would like to change the stop position and the color for a given stop - over time with key-frames.
Rene66: The idea about math nodes on the grayscale sounds interesting. I would like to see your implementation.
TIA,
Jeff
Rene66: The idea about math nodes on the grayscale sounds interesting. I would like to see your implementation.
TIA,
Jeff
Attachments
Rene66
0
Try this out - the GIF shows the basic result - the screen cap shows the basic material - the ZIP has the Cheetah File with everything you need to replicate. I use a normal map in my material - but this would work fine without the Normal map. Render this as a MOV and it's wicked smooth.
Basically I used a couple math nodes to expand and compress the greyscale image pointing to the gradient. I keyframed a "NUMBER" node from 1.0 to -1.0 (0.0 is FULL Gradient).
If this isn't the effect you wanted - chime back in - there may be a workaround -- Cheers.
Basically I used a couple math nodes to expand and compress the greyscale image pointing to the gradient. I keyframed a "NUMBER" node from 1.0 to -1.0 (0.0 is FULL Gradient).
If this isn't the effect you wanted - chime back in - there may be a workaround -- Cheers.
Attachments
jeffcase
0
Thanks for your example Rene66. Your technique demonstrates a far better understanding of the tools. However I believe we are arriving at the same place. To get to my specific concern, look at my video & yours. Notice the details in the ocean areas. When the ocean begins fill up with water, the details of the bathysphere disappear.
This is apparently due to the gradient position change. When the gradient reaches the end of it's ramp, there is no more transition of color - the tonal details are lost. From what I understand, from what I see, there is a need to modify the gradient stops over time to achieve the subtle transitions and render at least some of the bathysphere tones.
This may be a small road, but I believe it would lead to a pleasing result... if I could keyframe a gradient change! I still don't see how I can achieve the desired result with the current set of tools.
I'm fairly sure I could do this in Photoshop, but it would require some major scripting, and several steps that included tones, colors & masks. Along with having to extract each MOV rendered in C3D into individual PNG's, do the PSD magic and re-animate the results, it's a bit of work and would be a specific one-time script. Perhaps there IS a need for gradient modifying in a keyframe and I should officially make-a-wish.
I have a some more issues that this brings up and hope to use this project to resolve them as well. I want to carry this specific issue to it's conclusion (if possible) before I open up other concerns. So I will give this a chance to go a few more days, then throw in the towel if necessary, make-a-wish, and move the next issue. Technique is everything! I'm learning as I go - with a little help from my friends
Thanks again,
Jeff
This is apparently due to the gradient position change. When the gradient reaches the end of it's ramp, there is no more transition of color - the tonal details are lost. From what I understand, from what I see, there is a need to modify the gradient stops over time to achieve the subtle transitions and render at least some of the bathysphere tones.
This may be a small road, but I believe it would lead to a pleasing result... if I could keyframe a gradient change! I still don't see how I can achieve the desired result with the current set of tools.
I'm fairly sure I could do this in Photoshop, but it would require some major scripting, and several steps that included tones, colors & masks. Along with having to extract each MOV rendered in C3D into individual PNG's, do the PSD magic and re-animate the results, it's a bit of work and would be a specific one-time script. Perhaps there IS a need for gradient modifying in a keyframe and I should officially make-a-wish.
I have a some more issues that this brings up and hope to use this project to resolve them as well. I want to carry this specific issue to it's conclusion (if possible) before I open up other concerns. So I will give this a chance to go a few more days, then throw in the towel if necessary, make-a-wish, and move the next issue. Technique is everything! I'm learning as I go - with a little help from my friends
Thanks again,
Jeff
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Rene66
0
It is quite possible that the only tweaking necessary at this point is modifying the greyscale DEM file AND the gradient.
If you could send me your DEM and your Cheetah file I am fairly confident we could arrive at a solution that works.
It was my feeling that you wanted the ocean level to rise from nothing to current coastal and then cover the mountains - working on my file with the DEM I selected I soon realized that there is NO DEPTH information once we reach sea-level. In order for this to work, we need depth information for the ocean as well with sea-level being at 50% grey, black is the bottom of the ocean. This information was not in my DEM, so the ocean arrives suddenly.
Soooo, the solution (in my opinion) is using a DEM file with greyscale information that renders the ocean topography as well -- AND -- further adjustments to the Gradient Node.
Let me know if I can help more. Cheers.
If you could send me your DEM and your Cheetah file I am fairly confident we could arrive at a solution that works.
It was my feeling that you wanted the ocean level to rise from nothing to current coastal and then cover the mountains - working on my file with the DEM I selected I soon realized that there is NO DEPTH information once we reach sea-level. In order for this to work, we need depth information for the ocean as well with sea-level being at 50% grey, black is the bottom of the ocean. This information was not in my DEM, so the ocean arrives suddenly.
Soooo, the solution (in my opinion) is using a DEM file with greyscale information that renders the ocean topography as well -- AND -- further adjustments to the Gradient Node.
Let me know if I can help more. Cheers.
jeffcase
0
Rene66: Thanks for your continued interest. I took another long look at your technique. It leverages the full range of the gradient and there is more latitude. However, the "NUMBER" property is only shifting the position of the gradient - not it's stop values or the curves of the DEM. An up-front modification of the DEM/gradient does allow for stretching and compressing of certain regions, but are not modifiable over time.
IMHO, as I see it, at a minimum, I need to modify the start & end gradient stops in order to change the maximum depth/height appearances. Both techniques are blowing out the extremes. Artistically speaking, I need to keep the mountains from becoming totally snowed over and the oceans from becoming a complete abyss. Technically speaking, this would be best done by key-framing the gradient stops during animation - at least as far as I can understand and have not been able to accomplish.
There may be a method using nodes that would allow a change to the DEM values - expanding/compressing the necessary tonal regions, but it is not happening with a "NUMBER" modification. I would like to understand more about what you are doing in those nodes. Can you offer up a small tutorial explanation?
I have attached lower rez versions of the DEM files along with the .jas file. I would be very interested to see what can be done to improve on this issue.
TIA,
Jeff
IMHO, as I see it, at a minimum, I need to modify the start & end gradient stops in order to change the maximum depth/height appearances. Both techniques are blowing out the extremes. Artistically speaking, I need to keep the mountains from becoming totally snowed over and the oceans from becoming a complete abyss. Technically speaking, this would be best done by key-framing the gradient stops during animation - at least as far as I can understand and have not been able to accomplish.
There may be a method using nodes that would allow a change to the DEM values - expanding/compressing the necessary tonal regions, but it is not happening with a "NUMBER" modification. I would like to understand more about what you are doing in those nodes. Can you offer up a small tutorial explanation?
I have attached lower rez versions of the DEM files along with the .jas file. I would be very interested to see what can be done to improve on this issue.
TIA,
Jeff
Attachments
Rene66
0
Thanks for the images Jeff - these will help a lot. I am still confident a solution is at hand, I believe that I may not yet understand exactly the effect you are striving to create. If possible, could you please create a START image and an END image. That would help me understand more clearly what you're shooting for. There's always more than one way to skin a cat and I believe the effect is attainable.
I did more experimentation myself already and have slightly modified the math nodes to improve the effect.
My file/animation was designed to go from all Snow caps to oceanic abyss (which I now see is not what you wanted) - so Start and End images would really clear things up methinks -- Cheers.
I did more experimentation myself already and have slightly modified the math nodes to improve the effect.
My file/animation was designed to go from all Snow caps to oceanic abyss (which I now see is not what you wanted) - so Start and End images would really clear things up methinks -- Cheers.
Rene66
0
Here is a link that cracks just the tip of the iceberg:
http://www.cheetah3d.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9887
the entry by Podperson explains that it is possible to adjust any image inside Cheetah (curves, contrast, etc.). And since math nodes are keyframable, we should be able to modify the DEM greyscale data over time. Some of what he describes I have yet to experiment with in an animation. Your project provides an opportunity to experiment more. Once we nail it I can explain in more detail the approach, but this link will begin to open the doors methinks - Podperson also provides a sample file. -- Cheers.