Fix UV Mapper

John B

John B

0
Fix UV Mapper

This has been mentioned before, but not since 2010, and it's not fixed in the most recent beta.

Please make the UV Mapper tool work like EVERYTHING else. If I map a UV texture on an object, then do the same on another object, then go back to adjust the first object's mapping, it automatically applies the mapping from the second object. All the time I spent tweaking the first map is gone because the UV Mapper only remembers its most recent settings. The UV parameters are obviously saved with the object, since it draws the texture correctly. So why can't the UV Mapper tool read the saved parameters and display the texture correctly when it's selected?

No other tool in Cheetah3D, or in any other program, works this way. The selection tool doesn't automatically apply the transform from the previous object to the next object I select. In Word, if I select a word and change the formatting to make it bold, when I select another word it doesn't automatically apply the bold formatting from the previous selection. Please make the UV Mapper read the saved mapping parameters from an object and display the map correctly when the object is selected.
 
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frank beckmann said:
Not sure - never heard about nor have an issue with it: https://www.cheetah3d.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10981
I can´t quite follow your description.

Cheers
Frank
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Here's the only other mention I could find on the forums:

https://www.cheetah3d.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5537&highlight=mapper

It's quite simple really, here's how to see the problem: Select an object. Select the UV Mapper tool, and position the texture on the object using, for example, cubic mapping. Write the UV coordinates. Select a different object. Select the UV Mapper tool, and position the texture on that object using cylindrical mapping. Write the UV coordinates for the 2nd object. Now select the first object, select the UV Mapper tool, and suddenly the 1st object is using the cylindrical mapping from the 2nd object.

All the time I spent arranging that cubic map on the first object is forgotten, it now has a completely different cylindrical UV map. The UV Mapper tool has applied the settings from the 2nd object to the first object when it was selected again.

The only solution I've found is to write down all the UV settings so if I ever need to change the UV Mapping, I can reproduce what I did previously. This should not be necessary. Rather than applying the most recent settings, the UV Mapper tool should reading the saved UV settings from the selected object.

Hopefully, that's easier to follow.

In that video you linked to, what would happen if, after mapping the building, he mapped another completely different object then went back and wanted to adjust the mapping on the building? Would he not have to start over from scratch because the building would be showing the mapping used on the other object?
 
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I'm curious as to why you want the UV Mapper to "remember" its settings relative to every object you have ever used it on. Would you expect every tool to behave this way? In general, tools remember their own settings independent of the thing they're working on.

I assume there's something peculiar to your workflow that makes what you are describing seem very useful. If you were so inclined this seems like something you could do with scripting (effectively create a "clipboard" for a tool's settings).
 
podperson said:
I'm curious as to why you want the UV Mapper to "remember" its settings relative to every object you have ever used it on. Would you expect every tool to behave this way? In general, tools remember their own settings independent of the thing they're working on.
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I'm not sure what other software you use, but EVERY tool in EVERY program, including Cheetah3D, works this way. And you're talking about it in reverse. The tool doesn't "remember," it reads the setting from the object when it's selected.

Take for example formatting in MS Word. When I select a word to change its style, the selection tool does not set the word to whatever I previously selected. It reads the style, e.g., bold, from the word and doesn't change the way it's displayed. If I'd just set a word to italics, it wouldn't change my next selection to italics.

Or as another example, take the selection tool in Cheetah3D. When I select an object and view it's transform, the transform of the selected object is shown, NOT the transform of the previously-selected object. The selected object doesn't immediately change its position/rotation/scale to that of the previously-selected object. The selection tool isn't remembering the transform of every object ever selected, it's reading the transform saved with the object and using that as a starting point for future edits.

As far as workflow, I don't always get UV mapping exactly right the first time, so sometimes I need to go back to adjust it. But there is no adjusting, just starting over from scratch every time. I guess if you never need to change UV mapping, then you might not see a need.
 
John B said:
I'm not sure what other software you use, but EVERY tool in EVERY program, including Cheetah3D, works this way. And you're talking about it in reverse. The tool doesn't "remember," it reads the setting from the object when it's selected.

Take for example formatting in MS Word. When I select a word to change its style, the selection tool does not set the word to whatever I previously selected. It reads the style, e.g., bold, from the word and doesn't change the way it's displayed. If I'd just set a word to italics, it wouldn't change my next selection to italics.

Or as another example, take the selection tool in Cheetah3D. When I select an object and view it's transform, the transform of the selected object is shown, NOT the transform of the previously-selected object. The selected object doesn't immediately change its position/rotation/scale to that of the previously-selected object. The selection tool isn't remembering the transform of every object ever selected, it's reading the transform saved with the object and using that as a starting point for future edits.

As far as workflow, I don't always get UV mapping exactly right the first time, so sometimes I need to go back to adjust it. But there is no adjusting, just starting over from scratch every time. I guess if you never need to change UV mapping, then you might not see a need.
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You’re confusing the document (and object) state and the tool’s state. The C3D UV mapper doesn’t change the object’s state unless you write UV coordinates. The object remembers its own UV coordinates. Tools in Word generally don’t have state because they’re pretty simple. Think of a powerful tool in Word like stylesheets. Changing it actually changes stuff all over the place including the effect of using the tool in the future AND the effect of things you’ve done in the past, and it remembers what you do to it. And in fact, a competent word user will use stylesheets and not the italic button to style a document.
 
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And in fact, a competent word user will use stylesheets and not the italic button to style a document.
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Not important, I know, but 9 out of 10 people don't. And those who use it mostly do it wrong (for example creating new styles instead of changing the actual). Even IT professionals. I met very few competent word users (and I'm talking of hundreds where I've seen their files and almost as much where I had to show simple things). They use it every day, had learnt it in school, have diplomas and whatever. And most aren't able to give a word document the right structure.

But in this case: John seems to understand the way uv-mapping works as he describes it. Only something like this never happened to me with cheetah (the uv mapping is quiet good). As podperson states, once written the UV-coordinates stay the same for the object. They only change when you do it somehow anew.
 
Hasdrubal I totally agree, and it’s largely because the word processors have stupid user interfaces. It should be easy to apply styles and hard to change them or apply overrides. Instead it’s the opposite. For years word processor developers trained users to click the bold button and pick fonts from a font menu, and usually hide the style tools.

One of the reasons markdown has become so popular with writers is that it makes applying styles easy and changing them difficult or impossible. (Another reason is that years of being burned by proprietary file formats has made everyone gunshy)
 
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stupid user interfaces
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For years word processor developers trained users to click the bold button and pick fonts from a font menu, and usually hide the style tools.
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Of course you're right, especially about the interface. But as mentioned before, I had a lot to do with word users. Some of them even knew of stylesheets etc., but couldn't grasp the reason to use it. So at least in part the developers gave the customers what they wanted.

Usually clerks see it as a way to keep in CD in their firms, but are not allowed to change an existing stylesheet, are plain too ... well ... dumb to create new ones when necessary and get trained to use the easy way.

Today it should be much better but as CSS 2 came with XHTML up to some 10 years ago, I had to show and explain the proper use of css to professional web designers several times who had learnt it in courses before. They just didn't get it before.

And even today most people don't even use the spell-checkers properly. It helps to take a letter and show them the sheer number of errors :p
 
podperson said:
You’re confusing the document (and object) state and the tool’s state. The C3D UV mapper doesn’t change the object’s state unless you write UV coordinates.
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I wonder if what's confusing the OP is that, when you switch back to the first object, the UV Mapper shows a preview (in light orange) of how it would map that object using your current settings. If you used cubic mapping for your first object and spherical for your second, then when you switch back to the first object, the UV Mapper tool will show you a preview of what it would look like to use spherical mapping on that object -- which would look odd.

But it won't actually APPLY that mapping unless you click the button to write new coordinates.

If you change the mapping type back to cubic, then you should see that UV Mapper's preview matches the mapping you applied earlier. I suppose it might not be exactly the same if you've made a lot of changes to the UV Mapper's own geometry (its scale and position), but it's usually not that hard to get it back to the same spot -- so that the preview lines up with the existing mapping.

I know this response is coming in a bit late, but hopefully it's helpful to someone!
 
uncle808us said:
@perpetualrevision
Just wanted to Welcome you to the forums.:smile:
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Thanks for the welcome, uncle808us!

As you can see from my "join date" I've been around for a few years, but until recently I couldn't get my login to work. So I was basically a lurker, searching the forums whenever I had questions about Cheetah and learning a lot from all of you!
 
I'm clearly way off base on this request. But the fact remains that if I go back to a UV-mapped object tomorrow, or next week, or next month to change that UV map, I can't tweak its current, saved UV settings, I have to start over. The only way I've found around this is to write down all the UV settings and then re-apply them all. The UV Mapper is the only tool in any program I've ever used that makes me do this. Since this is a wish list, I wish it didn't work that way.
 
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