wine glass

wine glass

I have ben playing around with version 5 and I can see the merits of the new mat system. but really without a manual of sorts ( for me a at least ) it's too much hit and miss adjusting materials or configuring them to how I want.

So I guess I'll wait for an inclusion of new Material shader int he help files.

Anyway I setup out and old sample scene with the new glass and kept the wine settings as before. all looks fine except for a dirty area on the base of the glass, tried for a while with the render tag settings and then reversing the mesh on the base, all no go.

So tried the same setup in Vue. Chose a light glass setting for glass and a wine material for the wine. Used the same .hdr and I was happier with the result without tweaking. The other thing this exercise highlighted. Was the aspect of the lens. Vue in focal mm is a lot more comfortable to use and gives you the perspective you would expect. ( Martin is this function hard to implement in Cheetah ? ).

Anyway a lot of positives on the new version bar the couple of niggles here.

Any thoughts or feedback will be gratefully accepted.

regards

Luke

I think, the base of the glass in the second image is to dark.

I think, it is not a good idea, to indicate the focal length in mm. A rendered image has no film size. Therefore it is not possible, to work with a focal length. It is a hoary relic of the photography on a given film size.

luke Bocchinelli said:

I have ben playing around with version 5 and I can see the merits of the new mat system. but really without a manual of sorts ( for me a at least ) it's too much hit and miss adjusting materials or configuring them to how I want.
...
Anyway I setup out and old sample scene with the new glass and kept the wine settings as before. all looks fine except for a dirty area on the base of the glass, tried for a while with the render tag settings and then reversing the mesh on the base, all no go.
...

Click to expand...

Very instructive exercise, Luke.
Concerning the new material system, besides the documentation, which you already mention, what would make it intuitive and fun to play with would be having previews of the textures and the applied effects on the Node window, not just in the final shader, but along the way as well. For example, I'd be nice seeing what a voronoi looks like before plugging it into a diffuse.

About your renders. Besides the dark bottom thing (are we sure the bottom of the glass is not touching the flat surface?), I think that the v.5 render is superior. More realistic, more refined. The glass materials are spot on, in my opinion. However, I can't quite understand why on v.5 the fresnel option migrated from the transparency section into the reflection one.

Andreu

Andreu

Thanks Yeah that would be good to have an updating preview with the possibility of zooming in the material shere. and both Andreu and Ricoh the second image is Cheetah ( the first one is Vue).

Re glass bottom, I have tried with out a bottom mesh, lifting the glass a nats all to no avail !

Ricoh. Re camera and focal length, this aspect has helped me a lot in Archviz views where in Vue I know with more precision, that a 50mm setting in the program is pretty much the equivalent of a 50mm lens and the tests I did on one building I was working on, bore this out. IE. I matched the photo to the model and then checked the position and distance on google earth, it was spot on within a metre over a distance 60 metres from target. That to me is quite invaluable. Also Indigo has this facility which makes a lot of sense on the Archviz side of things.

Regards

Luke

Luke,

The dark reflection is something I noticed right away with V5 and mentioned as one of my negatives. It's a noticable difference in all my previous scenes, when rendered in V5. It doesn't look more real to me at all. What I see in V5, is that the whites are brighter and the blacks are darker. More contrast is fine, but it's tuned way up for my taste.

You did lose the transparency of the liquid in the second, which leaves me wondering why. I don't think I had that problem in V5. I like the first one better.

mmm... if i had to choose i'd go for the first one (more natural look) but there's something i prefer in the second (more crisp). what i don't like in the 5.0 render is the exaggerate reflection and, obviously, the darker base

anyway me too I found some differences in rendering with 4.7 or 5.0 and the feeling I have is that there's something changed in the overall render engine, not only the material system, that needs some more time to understand. unfortunately i'm not so good to know exactly what it is...

Luke I'm with you about the need of some kind of docs about the MatSystem, hopefully with a single node preview or, at least, an on/off switch for each node to see what's its influence (without changing the chains).

great steps needs some time...

cheers,
A

Dear A

I agree on on all counts

My head is starting to get round the mat system, but it really does need a tut, text, etc.

But short tests between work, have proved fruitful, and it is a powerful system that Martin has come with.

I'm going to do a test with indigo and vue based on the latest readings or settings from Cheetah, and will post.

I have lost the muddy base, but only because I lifted the glass off the ground. So still a problem. But clarity and rendering speed...still king in Cheetah. So promising

Regards

Luke

the new black

hi luke,

is it barolo or bardolino ? :smile:

another trick to avoid black areas is to increase ray dephth in the render settings, with 10 instead of 6 there is more light bouncing and less shadow between bottom and surface.

i tested the new dielectric against the old transparent and found that it is now way faster (166s vs 1047s) but the reflections are weaker when the transparency is not white.

regards,

- archie

Archie...that second one is tight. I like the fact that the top of the liquid reflects some, as well. It gives it more life. The bottoms look a little odd, though.

If anyone knows lighting in Cheetah, it's Luke. I've been trying to tackle the quality of lighting in his renders for some time now. It hasn't been easy. I think that's why he and I are having issues with the way lighting plays in the scenes in V5 vs V4.

alvordr said:

Archie...that second one is tight. I like the fact that the top of the liquid reflects some, as well. It gives it more life. The bottoms look a little odd, though.

Click to expand...

thanks robert,

sadly the right hand one takes sixfold rendertime (old transparent material), the noisy shadow at the bottom i didn't really care for being interested in the wine material but i think that would go with more radiosity scatterings.

Dear archie

Nice and I'm with you on the comments.

But your bottom, pardon then pun, is also a tad "sploggy" .
What say you that we develop a glass and wine set and ask all how are keen to come up with there version via the new mat system on V5.

It would make for interesting reading and learning, would it not.

PS mine's a montepulciano d abruzzo

Regards

Luke

luke Bocchinelli said:

But your bottom, pardon then pun, is also a tad "sploggy" .
What say you that we develop a glass and wine set and ask all how are keen to come up with there version via the new mat system on V5.

Click to expand...

hi luke,

great suggestion !

i was having a go at the glass bottom again and found out in v5 i can choose between two different kinds of noise, the cloudy one like in my pics above with irradiance detail detection off (and it doesn't really go away with samples increased) and a crisp noise with detail detection on, which doesn't even disappear with antialiasing at 4x/8x. :frown:

so i've run out of tricks now and also depend on others showing how to render a detailed/hires glass without noise in v5.

help anyone ?






update: pinot grigio :smile:



v4transparent material~2800swow



at least both versions have a noisy bottom :tongue:

it looks like the dielectric restricts raytrace bounces for speed's sake, sacrificing detail and brightness.