Cheetah on older hardware

Cheetah on older hardware

I did a search through the forums and I didn't find this question exactly, but forgive me if the answer can be found elsewhere. Cheetah3D looks like a great program and I would like to try it out, but since I am not a Mac owner I cannot. I also cannot afford one of those fancy dual-G5 jobs, $3000 is far too much for me. I have thought of using some sort of emulation to run it on a PC, but a 3D program would be far too intense to get halfway-decent performance out of an emulator. The only option that is affordable right now is to buy an older computer and put OS X on it and run it from there. That's the question here, is there anyone running this on an old G3 or something, maybe a Cube or something...something that's right at the requirements of Cheetah3D? I am curious as to the performance...is it something that I should just forget about? Or should I just wait and buy today's current computer after the Mactels come out and prices drop? Ideally, I would like to spend no more than $5-600. That's not a lot, I know, but on the horizon is the building of my "supercomputer" for less than $1500...no, not actually top of the line everything, but close enough (Athlon64 4000+, GeForce 6800GT, 2GB RAM, etc.). It's an advantage of being a computer tech that I can save a fortune by building it myself.

I know someone is going to suggest a MacMini at some point, but I have reservations about using that for 3D work, although I am interested in hearing from anyone who uses one. The main detractor is the video card, only 32MB of memory seems a little underwhelming. However, I have heard nothing but good things about the Mini overall.

For the record, I used to be a Windows loser...um, user...but I am currently running Mepis 3.3.1-1, and I LOVE it. I still dual-boot on occasion, but I rarely use XP. As for 3D programs, I have been learning Lightwave3D (hence the dual-booting) and Blender3D. I think Blender has a lot of potential, but DANG! the interface is a pain in the butt. Also, anyone out there who has used Lightwave3D on Mac, especially older Macs, let me hear about that. Although I am a Linux lover, I really hold no grudges against any OS (yes, even XP), because I do not believe there is one OS that can suit every person. I believe that having choice in your OS is important, and I would not be above investing a bit of $$ in a new Mac (at some point) just to run Lightwave, it's a great program. Cheetah3D looks like a good one, too...is it?

Anyway, I hope to be trying Cheetah3D at some time, hopefully soon. Thanks!! :D
 
If the rumoursites are correct, a new Macmini is coming out, with more videoram and a little speedbump. So you could wait until those come out. Or save a little more to buy a iMac. Cheetah3d works great on these.
And there's the possibility of secondhand computers. Don't now any prices for those machines. Hope I could help out!

Regards,
Peter
 
I checked out the new minis, thanks for the info. 64MB of VRAM still seems a bit on the light side, but I could be wrong. The iMacs do look nice, don't they? It is a little more than I was wanting to spend, but it's a lot cheaper than the big dog. I could definitely make good use of the iMac.

About the all-in-one design...has anyone out there had any problems with them? I hate the thought of losing my computer for a few weeks just because the monitor crapped out. Is there an output for another monitor, just in case...and since we're talking a computer for 3D usage, just because? Using two monitors would be a great asset.

So how does that big Power Mac G5 run, anyway? Aside from its 3D usage, is it a good machine? I assume it is, I just want to hear someone say it. I'd also like to hear from someone about using Linux on it via a dual-boot situation. At $3000, it's got to be the main computer, and I have already said that I am a Linux lover. I definitely wouldn't want to get rid of OS X completely, even if I ultimately decided against Cheetah. There are professional considerations at work. I know no one qualified to work on a Mac, and most computer techs treat them like a leper, so being able to work on the hard/software would be a great advantage. There are several colleges nearby that specialize in graphic design, so of course there are a lot of Macs around. I am always looking for an advantage.

Anyway, back to work I go. Thanks for any help! :D
 
I work on an iMac at home (17" 1.8 GHz G5) (also running Cheetah 3d). Although I have only 512 MB the rendering goes quite fast! Even with some more complex models. I must say that I have the first generation. The current line has better videocards and standard 512 MB. There is a video out port but I haven't used a 2nd monitor so I can't tell whether that will work. And although I'm not familiar with Linux (which is already way better than Windows :) ) I must say I love working on a Mac!!!

Regards,
Peter
 
Actually, if I remember correctly, Video RAM (the graphics card) has NOTHING to do with rendering; the processor does it all, even RAM doesn't do anything. That's how I've had it explained to me, and I'm sure that's how all Windows renderers do their work.

Perhaps Martin, you could explain whether the processor or video card does the rendering?
 
shadowkhas said:
the processor does it all, even RAM doesn't do anything.

If the scene fits into the RAM it's fine. But if the OS has to swap data to the hard disc due to limited RAM the rendering speed will drop down dramatically. So RAM has a quite serious impact.

shadowkhas said:
Perhaps Martin, you could explain whether the processor or video card does the rendering?

The processor does the rendering. But the graphics card does the redraw of the rendered image. So if you render a big 4kx4k image just the redraw of the renderering preview can slow down. So if you render big images a fast graphics card can have a positive impact on rendering speed.

By,
Martin
 
Right on with the analysis of RAM, proc and VRAM. RAM is important with a memory-intensive app mostly because it can be accessed about a million times faster than the hard drive, so a large scene with a lot of info will grind to almost a halt without enough RAM. And if you've ever worked with a scene with a ton of polys with an inadequate video card, you know that your work progress can grind to a halt as the card can't redraw the screen fast enough to make for a smooth workflow. But while the overall speed of the proc is the most important part of fast project rendering, the fastest proc is still slow, especially for an animation (30 frames for one second of animation). That's why a lot of people spend a lot of money for that one killer computer, and then render on a slow piece of junk, or a networked pile of several pieces of junk. You can render on anything, and you can render while you are at work, at school, on a date, on vacation...whatever. Do like Ron Popeil: "Set it and forget it." You can have a render farm for a few hundred bucks.

On that subject, can Cheetah do a distributed network render? As inexpensive as the software is, having several computers networked with the program would not be prohibitively expensive.

So, thanks for all of your input. I think I will put an iMac on my wish list and start saving...and if I get a wild hair I might even spend a bit on one of those Big Mac Daddies.

Hey, is anyone looking forward to Intel procs? I've heard mixed reaction, and some people are definitely not liking it. PowerPC is a great chip, I don't know if Intel can match it yet, although I know they are working on the next-gen Pentium M (and dual-core M), which might do it. Just curious about further views from the "inside." Some people think it's all about the OS...as a Linux fiend, I can tell you the OS matters a lot more than some people think. I had to restore a Win98 machine at work today...finding drivers without the factory install disks is next to impossible, even for XP. Linux, you just boot and go. How people continue to use Windows in the face of the various *nix OSes is beyond me.

:?
 
i run Cheetah on my Powermac G4 1GHz dual (64MB-vram) 1,25 GB Ram

it renders quite good,


a Question @Martin: does Cheetah support the Altivec-Unit?
 
rijelkentaurus said:
On that subject, can Cheetah do a distributed network render? As inexpensive as the software is, having several computers networked with the program would not be prohibitively expensive.

Sorry not yet. But that would be cool of course. :wink:

Nilkimas said:
a Question @Martin: does Cheetah support the Altivec-Unit?

No it doesn't use Altivec. Sorry.

By,
Martin
 
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