When rigging fingers what is the best orientation? And when should you orient?
Finger rigging orientation?
- Thread starter uncle808us
- Start date
Human 5 Fingers
ZooHead
0
Are you talking about the Orient Joint command in the Character menu?
Yes to Zoo. Thanks Lydia, what are the green circles in your first image?
Lydia
Active member
These are controllers that I have built in. They make it easier to animate and to keyframe. The joints to be animated are connected to the respective spline with a parent constraint tag.
Lydia
Active member
The hand is of a MakeHuman character. But perhaps a few more tips on that:
If I'm too lazy to rig myself, I just export a MakeHuman character and adapt the skeleton to my own character. With MH you can export different skeletons, with more or less bones. What I have found is that it works best if you export with the orientation "global". But then it is important to export the character in the T-pose, otherwise that happens with the fingers, what you can see on picture 2. With the other orientations, the problem was always that my joints with IK handles jumped when animating (I don't know what you call this problem, but it is terribly annoying). It was so bad that I animated my second short film completely without IK handles. Phew, I never want to do that again....
And check out some of Zoohead's earlier post. He posted quite a bit on the subject of rigs and controllers, without which I probably couldn't have done it in the beginning.
Helmut
0
* I fully agree with Lydia. MakeHuman is an efficient and effective shortcut to generate primary drafts for humanoid characters. The GUI is quite simplish, yet a fair bit of fine- tuning can be achieved to create females / males of a rough age group and variable physiognomies and bodily characteristics.
AFAIK, you (ie, @uncle808us ) work primarily with cartoonish characters, so this tool may not fit your work flow. Other C3D users may want to experiment with it.
There are some differences between Homo Simpson and Homo Sapiens...
AFAIK, you (ie, @uncle808us ) work primarily with cartoonish characters, so this tool may not fit your work flow. Other C3D users may want to experiment with it. There are some differences between Homo Simpson and Homo Sapiens...
ZooHead
0
As far as the Orient Joint command, it's great to have the ability to align the
Transform Tool to a Bone but if a rig is built correctly there's usually no need for it.
That's why I don't use the Joint Tool, instead I use the Joint Object in the Scene Objects menu.
A bone is made up of two Joints defined by hierarchy and their positions in 3D space.
I always create my first Bone horizontally or vertically an then ROTATE IT into place.
You can then make the Bone longer or shorter before you add the next Joint to make the next bone.
Then you rotate that Bone into place and so on, that way everything stays properly
oriented with only a few exceptions.
The question of which orientation to use within the Orient Joint tool panel I can't
answer because the choices have me confused. So It's trial and error for me there.
Transform Tool to a Bone but if a rig is built correctly there's usually no need for it.
That's why I don't use the Joint Tool, instead I use the Joint Object in the Scene Objects menu.
A bone is made up of two Joints defined by hierarchy and their positions in 3D space.
I always create my first Bone horizontally or vertically an then ROTATE IT into place.
You can then make the Bone longer or shorter before you add the next Joint to make the next bone.
Then you rotate that Bone into place and so on, that way everything stays properly
oriented with only a few exceptions.
The question of which orientation to use within the Orient Joint tool panel I can't
answer because the choices have me confused. So It's trial and error for me there.
Yes Zoo's tutorials are all very useful he has a unique way of seeing things. As for MH I have used it for years.but not for this as Helmut says I do work mostly with Toonish characters. So it is rare that I use a MH figure. MH and C3d get along nicely.
You have been very helpful with your posts and I appreciate it.
In future I will keep in mind this skeletal info about MH thanks.
Yes Zoo's tutorials are all very useful he has a unique way of seeing things. As for MH I have used it for years.but not for this as Helmut says I do work mostly with Toonish characters. So it is rare that I use a MH figure. MH and C3d get along nicely.
You have been very helpful with your posts and I appreciate it.
In future I will keep in mind this skeletal info about MH thanks.
Thanks Helmut* I fully agree with Lydia. MakeHuman is an efficient and effective shortcut to generate primary drafts for humanoid characters. The GUI is quite simplish, yet a fair bit of fine- tuning can be achieved to create females / males of a rough age group and variable physiognomies and bodily characteristics.
I still have not mastered the use of the Joint Tool. as to the Orient Joint Tool the setting are confusing. I have tried to figure them out but XYZ ZXY YZX ???
Lydia
Active member
Oh, I'm so glad you both feel the same way. I thought I was the only one who is totally confused by this Orient Joint tool. 
I never use that either. If a joint isn't aligned properly I just turn the pivot point to make it fit.
I know your characters, uncle808us. I just thought it is easier to use an existing skeleton than to build a new one, especially if it's more substantial, i.e. with 10 fingers, etc. It's much quicker to adapt it to another character, so just move the joints into the right place or delete bones that you don't need. And the joints are already named. This also makes a lot of work if you have a lot of bones and I find it a bit annoying.
And one more thing I thought of about the controllers that you might not expect, or you might - I don't know: you can also bind a skeleton with things in it, so with all the tags, or sometimes I have controllers or other things within the skeleton hierarchy. You can leave all that and use the whole structure with controllers for another character. (Which makes it additionally easier to adapt it.) And it's advisable to always set pose tags immediately for each controller, at least for the basic pose, so you can always go back quickly, but also to save other poses like a walk cycle.
I never use that either. If a joint isn't aligned properly I just turn the pivot point to make it fit.I know your characters, uncle808us. I just thought it is easier to use an existing skeleton than to build a new one, especially if it's more substantial, i.e. with 10 fingers, etc. It's much quicker to adapt it to another character, so just move the joints into the right place or delete bones that you don't need. And the joints are already named. This also makes a lot of work if you have a lot of bones and I find it a bit annoying.
And one more thing I thought of about the controllers that you might not expect, or you might - I don't know: you can also bind a skeleton with things in it, so with all the tags, or sometimes I have controllers or other things within the skeleton hierarchy. You can leave all that and use the whole structure with controllers for another character. (Which makes it additionally easier to adapt it.) And it's advisable to always set pose tags immediately for each controller, at least for the basic pose, so you can always go back quickly, but also to save other poses like a walk cycle.
Helmut
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Yes, indeed! I only discovered fairly late that a skeletal hierarchy can contain "non-jointy" objects. This allows quite interesting options when designing the structure and kinetics of complex entities in a scene. As usual, a bit of heavy duty brainstorming and counter-intuitive imagination is required. As also usual, once you tweak your mind to queer ideas, this is great creative fun...
ZooHead
0
Here's an example of a non jointy object placed as a child of a Bone.
I have employed IK handles with Target Objects for the fingers,
and used forward kinematics for the palm articulation and wrist.
I also utilized the Pose Tag to capture only three "poses" and then I keyframed those poses.
Big Tip: You only need to put the Pose Tag on the top bone and it will even
capture the position of the Target Objects if they are in the bone hierarchy.
I have employed IK handles with Target Objects for the fingers,
and used forward kinematics for the palm articulation and wrist.
I also utilized the Pose Tag to capture only three "poses" and then I keyframed those poses.
Big Tip: You only need to put the Pose Tag on the top bone and it will even
capture the position of the Target Objects if they are in the bone hierarchy.