Another short film

Lydia

Active member
This is another of my practice films, inspired by the discussion with Hasdrubal and Helmut about my last short, and by Zoohead's Revolver.
It's a reference to "Pulp Fiction" and the big question "What's in the briefcase?". As an answer, I picked up on one of the theories circulating on the Internet.
Thanks for watching!


Just a quick explanation of what I wanted to do first and foremost:
After Adobe discontinued "Fuse", I returned to MakeHuman. I wanted to create a well working rig with controllers, which I hadn't done well with MakeHuman characters before - and also work with face controls for the first time.

(By the way, I didn't model the revolver and pistol myself, nor the jukebox, the lights behind the bar, and the whiskey glass. That's all from free3d.com. I only made the briefcase, the Zippo, the table lamps, etc. The clothes - except the two suits - are from http://www.makehumancommunity.org/clothes).
 
* This is highly impressive crafts(wo)manship. I love the (tongue in cheek) pun on film noir and the absurdist wit.
* I am specifically impressed by the seamless continuity, the animation of the actors and the masterful and subtle manipulation of the physiognomy. Chapeau!
* You have developed - from your very first experiments published in this forum - a very idiosyncratic style, slightly disturbing (in the Freudian sense of unheimlich) and also alienating (in the Brechtian sense of Verfremdung).

:poop:Ende der Klugscheisserei.

* Great stuff, I may even call it ingenious.
* Servus from Vienna
 
* If you find time, many C3D users on this forum (including me), would appreciate one or two brief tutes on your methods to animate facial expressions.
 
* PS: I know nothing about Pulp Fiction and - prejudice or not - avoid films by Quentin Tarantino. Out of sheer curiousity (relating back to some old posts on cinematography) you may be interested in checking the work of Wes Anderson. Possibly, you find them to be sterile exercises in geometry, but maybe you find some new ideas on composition.
 
Again, the animation is very well done, very fluid, and the quality is more even this time around (I perceive some discrepancy between the two male characters, though. The one with the cap has a better texture than the suited one). Like I said, very well done, but now it would be time to up the game and look for better quality models and textures (and yes, a lot of that you'd have to do yourself).
 
* PS: I know nothing about Pulp Fiction and - prejudice or not - avoid films by Quentin Tarantino. Out of sheer curiousity (relating back to some old posts on cinematography) you may be interested in checking the work of Wes Anderson. Possibly, you find them to be sterile exercises in geometry, but maybe you find some new ideas on composition.

We talked about "essential viewing" in the thread for Lydia's last movie. And Quentin Tarantino is definitely part of that, Pulp Fiction and Django to be exact. You don't have to like it, but you have to know it (especially pulp fiction is part of our culture now in so many ways that you simply have to see it alone for that. But the film making is top notch (and the guy knows his film history probably better than anyone else, especially as he knows not only the masterpieces but also every genre and everything somehow influential, like the cheap Hong Kong movies, Blaxploitation, and whatnot).
 
Thank you very much Helmut! I am very happy that you like it. :D

To make tutorials, I honestly still feel too insecure. I just botch everything somehow. I think so far you can learn from me rather how not to do it correctly. ;) I still have so much to learn myself and I'm glad when I can answer a question here in the forum from time to time.

I only know Grand Budapest Hotel by Wes Anderson so far, and I think it's great. You're absolutely right, I should watch more of his films.
Again, the animation is very well done, very fluid, and the quality is more even this time around (I perceive some discrepancy between the two male characters, though. The one with the cap has a better texture than the suited one). Like I said, very well done, but now it would be time to up the game and look for better quality models and textures (and yes, a lot of that you'd have to do yourself).
Oh yes, I know I have some improving and learning to do in this subject area, as well as in many other categories too. I hope I will have the time and also the patience in the future.
I very often reach a point of despair. And then sometimes I even have to force myself to let it go, so that it continues. Then it's just not perfect yet - maybe next time. The most important thing for me is that my characters and I have fun together. And we have it even if they are not perfectly "styled". ;)
 
Oh yes, I know I have some improving and learning to do in this subject area, as well as in many other categories too. I hope I will have the time and also the patience in the future.
I very often reach a point of despair. And then sometimes I even have to force myself to let it go, so that it continues. Then it's just not perfect yet - maybe next time. The most important thing for me is that my characters and I have fun together. And we have it even if they are not perfectly "styled". ;)

I agree, that fun is the most important part. On animation you're on a high level, actually, especially considering that you are using Cheetah which doesn't have such evolved tools for animation as some other 3d packages (on the other hand, you learned it the right way, without any cheating). And your facial expressions (well, those of your chars) are a highlight. Also the stories are funny and well told (this time around no boring or unnecessary sequences). That's all on a very high level. And you have already found your own style. Actually, that's true for (almost) everything you have done yourself.

Please, don't get me wrong now, because, seeing it like an outsider, as a whole it still looks like a game done in the early 2000s. That has nothing to do with your knowledge or your lack thereof, but with the models and textures you use, maybe also something with Cheetah. If you would use Unreal, for example, there would be a whole plethora of free models on professional level (and stuff like metahuman, free for use with unreal), etc. Your skills are developed enough to produce something on a higher visual level, it's the same techniques you use now, not even much to learn. As I said, don't get me wrong, because this paragraph is certainly more of a compliment than anything else.

By the way, the only way to get over your insecurity would be to create a small tutorial how you animate those facial expressions in Cheetah. Because, in the end, in 3d, there isn't really a proper way to do things "correctly". There are some rules coming from the experience of a lot of people (like using quads for modeling) because they are time proven, but they are no laws. You don't have to adhere to them and it doesn't matter if your methods sometimes differ from such rules as long as they work. Obviously they do, and any tutorial from someone who knows his stuff (and here you certainly do) is a good thing. A reason to avoid doing it, is of course the time factor. A good tutorial is a lot of work, don't underestimate it, but if the insecurity is the only thing holding you back, you certainly should do it.
 
And your facial expressions (well, those of your chars) are a highlight.
Oh, you should see first of all MY facial expressions! ;):LOL: ...
Especially when I get so much positive feedback! :D
Please, don't get me wrong now, because, seeing it like an outsider, as a whole it still looks like a game done in the early 2000s. That has nothing to do with your knowledge or your lack thereof, but with the models and textures you use, maybe also something with Cheetah. If you would use Unreal, for example, there would be a whole plethora of free models on professional level (and stuff like metahuman, free for use with unreal), etc. Your skills are developed enough to produce something on a higher visual level, it's the same techniques you use now, not even much to learn. As I said, don't get me wrong, because this paragraph is certainly more of a compliment than anything else.
I understand very well what you mean. And I have to admit that I definitely often take a look at other programs. Blender would of course be an option with a lot more possibilities, but first of all I don't feel like it (plus I really love Cheetah) and secondly I would need a new Mac with a new operating system for that. I'm still working on two Mac Minis with Yosemite and Sierra (for different reasons). And they only run outdated versions that are additionally buggy. Similarly with other applications like Quixel Mixer. And of course, I also noticed Metahuman. It looks amazing! But I've been bothered so much with things that don't work that I thought I'd stick with the things that work well for now, and learn and practice with those things, at least until I will/can afford a new computer.
Also, I'd like to do more cartoony animations next. The characters to match would be less realistic anyway. But I'm afraid I'd have to create them myself, and all my homemade characters so far have been a disaster to animate. I also don't like rigging much (understatement), and I'm especially afraid of the face, particularly the mouth/pharynx.
In short, I need to give some more thought to how I'm going to proceed.

By the way, the only way to get over your insecurity would be to create a small tutorial how you animate those facial expressions in Cheetah. Because, in the end, in 3d, there isn't really a proper way to do things "correctly". There are some rules coming from the experience of a lot of people (like using quads for modeling) because they are time proven, but they are no laws. You don't have to adhere to them and it doesn't matter if your methods sometimes differ from such rules as long as they work. Obviously they do, and any tutorial from someone who knows his stuff (and here you certainly do) is a good thing. A reason to avoid doing it, is of course the time factor. A good tutorial is a lot of work, don't underestimate it, but if the insecurity is the only thing holding you back, you certainly should do it.
Thanks for your motivation! Yes, insecurity is the main reason, but not the only one. I actually wouldn't know what to say about it other than: I move my controllers, I set keyframes, and render/change until I'm satisfied. :unsure: The problem is, I've never been good at teaching or explaining anything to other people. (You can also see it very nicely in the responses to my answers here on the forum. The most common ones are: "I don't understand what you mean" :LOL:). Of course that shouldn't stop me and I would really love to help other users. But I guess I'm just not the type for that. I don't like that, to show others my way of working. I know it's not nice, but it's always been horrible for me, for example, when trainees at my job wanted to watch me work. I would always like to have told them, "Go far away and look somewhere else!" I'm afraid I really did tell them something like that at times. :devilish:
Time is also a reason, of course. I already hardly find the time to do what I want to do. But I'm always happy to answer questions, of course. And nevertheless I will think about it. Maybe I can get myself to do a very small tutorial at some point.
And at this point a huge THANKS to everyone here who makes tutorials and has helped me so much with it!
 
Hardware: The new Apple silicone is very promising, but as soon as you put in more RAM and bigger hard disks, the prices go up insanely. Also, for rendering purposes, other CPUs are already faster, much more so, if you have a decent RTX nvidia card and a renderer that uses it (I wasn't able to get one, though, because of a worldwide shortage due to crypto mining and corona lockdowns (I wasn't even able to get a 2000er series card, because older models vanish here around from the stores the day the new ones are theoretically available. A lot of it gets destroyed). That should change, though, now).

You already see the direction it goes: Like many else, I went the way of PC again for 3d, as much as I dislike it. But for something like a quarter of the cost of a similar Mac I got a very decent workstation (well, actually some strange gamer pc with overpowered cpu und way to much memory for that purpose). According to your budget you could find something still decent enough for 3d work. And while that thing is rendering away, you could still model in Cheetah on your macs. It's something you should consider.

Cartoony animations: Yes, that would be a style fitting for your animations, and something that can look very professional with a smaller effort (in render times etc). And you absolutely should create your main chars yourself, even if it's a drag to do it (you don't have to know that much of anatomy for cartoons which is also a plus). There are a ton of tutorials around how to create characters fit for animation, meaning, exactly where you need a denser mesh, where not etc. And it doesn't matter if that was created for Blender, Maya or C4d, as the topology is the same in every program. You can adapt it to Cheetah without a problem.

Rigging is a drag, and I have the same aversion as you (on the other hand I don't do much of animation, but want to change that). I also don't like doing uvs, but to be honest, that probably comes still from the days of old. where it used to be much more work to get something decent (now, I just do it, and sometimes even have some fun doing it). So, well, each time you do it, you'll be a bit faster, your muscle memory more polished and it will be less of a drag.

Teaching & tutorials: I do understand you very well, albeit that's an aversion I lost very long ago. It's totally different to write or create a video tutorial than doing it in person. So your trainees, who according to my own experience, come especially then, when you have your hands full with something else and are totally lost in that problem, and ask a question they asked several times before, often totally unwilling to think for themselves. There you sometimes have to be a bit hard (they don't have to like you, you know), but for a Tutorial it's totally different. There you have to anticipate what questions will come up and already answer them in your tut. Just avoid a common mistake often seen even in textbooks: Explain the easy as deeply that any imbecile would understand it and then just fly over the complicated stuff with hardly an explanation.

Already in school, explaining some stuff to classmates, I saw one advantage in teaching: It often leads you to a deeper understanding of your own subject.
 
I went the way of PC again for 3d, as much as I dislike it. But for something like a quarter of the cost of a similar Mac I got a very decent workstation (well, actually some strange gamer pc with overpowered cpu und way to much memory for that purpose). According to your budget you could find something still decent enough for 3d work. And while that thing is rendering away, you could still model in Cheetah on your macs. It's something you should consider.
:eek: I have not successfully resisted PCs for so many years just to let one into my house now! Well, if I find a dark and ugly corner for it, maybe I'll think about it.

Already in school, explaining some stuff to classmates, I saw one advantage in teaching: It often leads you to a deeper understanding of your own subject.
I can relate to that. Sometimes I explain a problem to my boyfriend, even if he has no idea about it at all and can't say anything about it, just because it gives me the solution myself. (Although he doesn't like not being able to say anything about something - e.g. Cheetah. But if it helps me, he has to go through it.)
 
Last edited:
:eek: I have not successfully resisted PCs for so many years just to let one into my house now! Well, if I find a dark and ugly corner for it, maybe I'll think about it.


I can relate to that. Sometimes I explain a problem to my boyfriend, even if he has no idea about it at all and can't say anything about it, just because it gives me the solution myself. (Although he doesn't like not being able to say anything about something - e.g. Cheetah. But if it helps me, he has to go through it.)
Well, that with the PC is just something to consider, if you have a tight budget. Those gamer cases don't look bad at all by the way, which, to be honest, wasn't important for me; it's rather that they are made for high workloads and give you the opportunity for a good ventilation (you'd need also a good motherboard because the cheaper ones may have the necessary specs on paper but they can have a problem with heat (I spare you the technical stuff). For me it was simple: The only Mac that could have given me the necessary performance would have been a MacPro which are a bit out of my league in times as these.

On the other hand, it could be worth it to wait till the next generation of Macs comes out. It could be that they have better performance well fitted for rendering and even with enough memory don't cost an arm and a leg (which, honestly, I don't really expect from Apple at this time).

That with explaining a problem to someone who doesn't know a thing of the subject, I did in the past, too. It's not quite the same, but it's funny how they can say the stupidest things that can bring you to a solution. They truly think out of the box because they simple don't know that there even is a box).
 
Back
Top