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The latest Thunderbolt news. OWC blog
Attention: Metal, Big Sur and Apple Silicon
- Thread starter Martin
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There is but not official
Tested it and the difference (classroom render) was almost 5 min faster:Release v2.91.0 · skwerner/blender
A build of Blender 2.91.0 for macOS/ARM. May be incomplete and buggy. Or it might just work.
github.com
Are you sure this is already a Metal version of the Cycles Renderer or is it just an M1 patch for the Blender framework that avoids the Rosetta emulation and enables native M1 CPU rendering?There is but not official
That would be already faster but still missing OpenCL GPU integration which was ditched by Blender since 2.8, let alone full Metal CPU + GPU integration which even Cinema 4D doesn't do.
Anyways, when Apple starts to roll out superior CPUs and GPUs next year (M1 now is just on par with Ryzen 5800U), there will be a huge advantage for native MacOS apps capitalizing on it and I really wish for Cheetah and Falcon not to miss that chance.
Not sure sorry. Probably not. Really excited to see Cheetah using al that power in the near future!
createtheimaginable.com
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It looks like the M1 is much faster than the Ryzen 5800U, take a look at this "Apple Silicon MacBook Air Launching Every Default App Quickly" video. I do not think the Ryzen 5800U can do this...
The M1 architecture is definitely superior to X86 and better multitasking skills are no big surprise.
But for rendering the raw machine power counts and there the Ryzen leads in multicore benchmarks.
There is no app currently that does hybrid (CPU and GPU) rendering on MacOS M1 and Linux/Windows.
Cycles and LuxCore do this and can be benched on Windows and Intel Macs, but they have no Metal for Mac implementation, let alone native M1.
So there is no proper way to compare render capabilities of Ryzen APU vs M1.
The question is if and when Falcon will utilize Metal on M1 (and successors) including their GPUs and if it can compete with OctaneX, the only M1 ready GPU renderer so far which was announced to come with free licenses for Mac Pro users.
This is the competition (which is a different one from Cheetah3D as a 3D modeler vs Blender) and I really wish for Cheetah to make a stand there.
I have been driven into the Blender/Windows/nVidia world very unwillingly and would like to reconnect to my Cheetah on Mac roots.
Looks like Apple is making things possible again, if Cheetah3D can too I will gladly buy on of those Mx 16-core machines instead of a Ryzen notebook next year.
Opening an app doesn't have to do with the processor only, it's also the ssd and the os. "Default App" is a hint that's the os here (together with the ssd)
The question is, how expensive it will be. And looking at the actual prices and the general Apple policy, I'm afraid those things will come in at a very high price (and as I need a computer now, I'm waiting for my 5950x ... grmbl. In Switzerland you have the privilege to pay more which isn't really compensated through the fact that we also have to wait longer til something is available (compared to the U.S. for example)).
Indeed, we'll have to wait and see.
The just released M1 entry models, a 700$ Mac Mini and the 1000$ MacBook Air are quite reasonably priced, even better considering the current "cyber deals".
The MacBook Pro 13" to me seems already overpriced compared with the Air as it adds only a fan, one GPU core, 20% more screen brightness and the dreadful touch-bar.
I fear the announced upgrades will happen in this "pro" tier where Apple is known to lose all shame and starts charging their customers as if they were celebrities like those in their ads.
There is no GPU support in those entry M1 models, which I find reasonable given the power efficiency which would be totally wasted once you connect a Blackmagic eGPU.
But this may change once their own GPUs are ready, I would be quite happy with a MacBook Air once I get eGPU support.
Also I'm concerned that the throw-away-after-two-years-when-it's-outdated philosophy from the iPhone world will now be firmly established in the Mac world too - except of course for the 50 000$ Mac Pro where everything will be replaceable including the monitor stand.
Imagine your company bought one of those earlier this year and now has to learn that the new superior architecture introduced right now is not part of the replaceability scheme...
A lenovo with a crappy processor and gpu with 16Gb of RAM and a 1TB SSD comes to $1650 (before sales tax) with coupons. 2TB isn’t an option.
What’s your point?
(We bought our kids lenovo gaming laptops once covid hit; one just mysteriously died and we can’t get Lenovo to respond to our service requests and there’s nowhere to take it.)
As of the M1 macs, it’s getting kind of hard to make a “macs are overpriced” argument.
@podperson
You compare an overpriced laptop with a mac mini. A MacBook Pro with the same configuration would be roughly 2750 US $ for me.
The Mini is an entry level desktop. For what it is, it is rather expensive, more so than the last generation (and you can't even use eGPU at the moment). That tells me that something on professional level will be a bit more than the actual hardware, especially as the policy didn't change where they ask an insane amount of money for rather small upgrades.
If I could, I'd wait, though, to see what they do with the iMacs 27", which, imho where a long time rather modestly priced and with an excellent screen really comparable to what you could get for your money in the pc world (not so anymore for the last 2 generations).
Also I do share Misoversaturated's concerns about the throw-away philosophy. Smoldered ssds, for example. They don't want you to repair their stuff, and for the new iphone they really went out of their way to make sure that even professional 3d-party-firms can't repair them anymore. That's not only bad for my wallet, it's much more so for the environment (where Apple doesn't shine anyways). But, to be fair, Apple isn't alone there. What do we care for the environment, global warming (or covid-deaths, for that matter), the future in general? It's certainly more important, isn't it, that the 1% super-rich make a few bucks more now than that our grand-children have a non-dystopian future.
(In case you haven't noticed: Such things piss me off)
And the 50'000 mac pro, thought of as an investment in the future, is a good example also which probably in reality produces a few very hot heads.
You compare an overpriced laptop with a mac mini. A MacBook Pro with the same configuration would be roughly 2750 US $ for me.
The Mini is an entry level desktop. For what it is, it is rather expensive, more so than the last generation (and you can't even use eGPU at the moment). That tells me that something on professional level will be a bit more than the actual hardware, especially as the policy didn't change where they ask an insane amount of money for rather small upgrades.
If I could, I'd wait, though, to see what they do with the iMacs 27", which, imho where a long time rather modestly priced and with an excellent screen really comparable to what you could get for your money in the pc world (not so anymore for the last 2 generations).
Also I do share Misoversaturated's concerns about the throw-away philosophy. Smoldered ssds, for example. They don't want you to repair their stuff, and for the new iphone they really went out of their way to make sure that even professional 3d-party-firms can't repair them anymore. That's not only bad for my wallet, it's much more so for the environment (where Apple doesn't shine anyways). But, to be fair, Apple isn't alone there. What do we care for the environment, global warming (or covid-deaths, for that matter), the future in general? It's certainly more important, isn't it, that the 1% super-rich make a few bucks more now than that our grand-children have a non-dystopian future.
(In case you haven't noticed: Such things piss me off)
And the 50'000 mac pro, thought of as an investment in the future, is a good example also which probably in reality produces a few very hot heads.
I agree that the Mac Pro and iMac Pro are crazy expensive. But the people who buy them are either doing it out of vanity or have a damn good reason (e.g. Pixar Animators used to use $80,000 SGI workstations).
A lenovo is an overpriced laptop? They cost the same as any similar brand-name laptop.
Most PC companies don’t sell a mini equivalent, and when they do, they’re not especially cheap.
Again, maybe you could get a headless mini PC for $300 less than the M1 mini similarly specced, and it would (a) run Windows and (b) be much, much slower. It’s going to be interesting to see what Apple sticks in the real mid-range Macs.
A lenovo is an overpriced laptop? They cost the same as any similar brand-name laptop.
Most PC companies don’t sell a mini equivalent, and when they do, they’re not especially cheap.
Again, maybe you could get a headless mini PC for $300 less than the M1 mini similarly specced, and it would (a) run Windows and (b) be much, much slower. It’s going to be interesting to see what Apple sticks in the real mid-range Macs.
I remember Lenovos as rather expensive (actually I'm not up-to-date about notebook prices, just don't need one. And what you describe certainly seems overpriced).
The problem isn't the basic versions of their hardware. That price is somewhat ok. But they ask an insane amount of money for 8 gigs of RAM or an SSD. It will be the same with the midrange, again a more or less ok price for the basic versions, but very expensive if you want more than that.
As I said, I find it interesting, too, what they will show.
But whatever the performance will be, amd and nvidia sooner or later will have their own arm systems, probably at a much lesser price (but yes, windows and linux. I'm waiting for decades for an actually functioning full windows compatible os). So Apple will not have this advantage for a very long time (at least not that big of an advantage).
About Mac and iMac Pro: I agree. Most of the people that need such a performance simply buy a pc at the moment.
The problem isn't the basic versions of their hardware. That price is somewhat ok. But they ask an insane amount of money for 8 gigs of RAM or an SSD. It will be the same with the midrange, again a more or less ok price for the basic versions, but very expensive if you want more than that.
As I said, I find it interesting, too, what they will show.
But whatever the performance will be, amd and nvidia sooner or later will have their own arm systems, probably at a much lesser price (but yes, windows and linux. I'm waiting for decades for an actually functioning full windows compatible os). So Apple will not have this advantage for a very long time (at least not that big of an advantage).
About Mac and iMac Pro: I agree. Most of the people that need such a performance simply buy a pc at the moment.
Apple’s prices for high end machines is perfectly normal and their hardware is much nicer.
www.cnet.com
I’m curious as to who would buy a high end Mac given that (for example) Adobe apps are more tuned for Windows and don’t really leverage extra cores. I assume it’s not nobody… scientists? Mobile developers (one of the highest specced macs I’ve ever seen in the wild was being used by a Facebook developer to compile mobile apps).
Sure, a Mac Pro setup can cost $53K, but here's why that's not as crazy as it sounds
Here's the truth. For a workstation, that's nothing.
www.cnet.com
I’m curious as to who would buy a high end Mac given that (for example) Adobe apps are more tuned for Windows and don’t really leverage extra cores. I assume it’s not nobody… scientists? Mobile developers (one of the highest specced macs I’ve ever seen in the wild was being used by a Facebook developer to compile mobile apps).
Well, we disagree here, maybe because of some price differences in your and my country.
I really don't know who ever bought such a machine nor did I ever find some hint at how many they ever sold (here around they would cost more than 60000 $). I'm not even sure if they'll sell another one till the ones come out with the new architecture.
Something else bothers me also ... As soon as the new models are out, what they still have in stock of older models seems to be destroyed. It just magically disappears, no sale or so.
I really don't know who ever bought such a machine nor did I ever find some hint at how many they ever sold (here around they would cost more than 60000 $). I'm not even sure if they'll sell another one till the ones come out with the new architecture.
Something else bothers me also ... As soon as the new models are out, what they still have in stock of older models seems to be destroyed. It just magically disappears, no sale or so.
Pod, it's again entry level, no extra. That's usually ok priced, but still for a basic Mac Pro: (CHF 6400=) 7340 US $ for what you pay 6000. The most expensive Mac would be $ 63631.13 (CHF 56'339.00), without afterburner. And yes, the median income is higher here, but it's more or less the same for jobs in the graphic industry and as much as I know scientists etc. (those probably can earn more in the U.S. than here). Other stuff is also a bit overpriced, of course, like housing, food etc (we have here a quite peculiar problem in the midst of the EU we're no part of, some foreigners I know were literally shocked when they enter a local super market).
(As an aside, don't get me wrong here. While a lot of things from foreign countries actually could and should be a lot cheaper here, a lot of other things aren't as expensive as in the U.S. It would cost you a lot less to bring your kids through university for example, or private medical insurance. And nobody (well, almost nobody) has to work three jobs just to get through. At least if you're rich, you don't pay as much taxes. A lot of other things are better, too, like life span, crime rate, better social security and much more. It's not quite a paradise but all in all a very good place to live for most of us).
HP is also extremely overpriced for their computers, and I agree with the shadow part. You pay heavily for the brand name without a real benefit.
But as soon as I buy a no-name pc with the same specs as the entry level Mac Pro I get away with a bit more than half the price, even less if I use AMD processors and RTX cards instead of those quadros or even get my own build which obviously you can't do with Macs. And such a pc (if built correctly) is no worse than anything you can get with a big brand name tagged on while there are cheaper brand names around like Acer or so. Maybe you wince reading that name, but I replaced a hp notebook with a cheap acer which was a much better experience than hp from the start. Then a cat shoved the Acer from a bench. The display got ruined. I clearly stated what had happened when I brought the thing for repair, respectively wanted an offer what it would cost. They replaced the damaged screen for free (I still had to buy a new one the same day because I absolutely needed the thing for work). It was much more of a hassle to get a replacement for my wife's ipad pro which was clearly a warranty case (the worst was an EIZO monitor which was sent back several times till we got a repair under protest).
My only complains with Apple are the prices, the throw-away-mentality, the resulting dependence and service. The OS is a much better experience than windows (or linux), and for "normal work" I prefer Apple, especially with the privacy policy. But for 3d work and graphics I have to return to windows because I simply can't justify such prices.
Ok, another complaint of mine is periphery. I'm left handed and use my mouse with the left, buttons switched. That's no problem with the magic mouse but my gamer mouse I need for my graphic work will not be supported anymore with Big Sur. Even with Catalina I have to reconnect the mouse each time I (re-)start the Mac that this for me so important left-right-button-change gets recognized. There are mice which have their own OS where the switch can be stored (steel series had one for example, but to configure such a mouse I'd need a windows pc anyway). So Big Sur is somewhat a problem for me anyway (for a year or two I'm good with Catalina, but still).
(As an aside, don't get me wrong here. While a lot of things from foreign countries actually could and should be a lot cheaper here, a lot of other things aren't as expensive as in the U.S. It would cost you a lot less to bring your kids through university for example, or private medical insurance. And nobody (well, almost nobody) has to work three jobs just to get through. At least if you're rich, you don't pay as much taxes. A lot of other things are better, too, like life span, crime rate, better social security and much more. It's not quite a paradise but all in all a very good place to live for most of us).
HP is also extremely overpriced for their computers, and I agree with the shadow part. You pay heavily for the brand name without a real benefit.
But as soon as I buy a no-name pc with the same specs as the entry level Mac Pro I get away with a bit more than half the price, even less if I use AMD processors and RTX cards instead of those quadros or even get my own build which obviously you can't do with Macs. And such a pc (if built correctly) is no worse than anything you can get with a big brand name tagged on while there are cheaper brand names around like Acer or so. Maybe you wince reading that name, but I replaced a hp notebook with a cheap acer which was a much better experience than hp from the start. Then a cat shoved the Acer from a bench. The display got ruined. I clearly stated what had happened when I brought the thing for repair, respectively wanted an offer what it would cost. They replaced the damaged screen for free (I still had to buy a new one the same day because I absolutely needed the thing for work). It was much more of a hassle to get a replacement for my wife's ipad pro which was clearly a warranty case (the worst was an EIZO monitor which was sent back several times till we got a repair under protest).
My only complains with Apple are the prices, the throw-away-mentality, the resulting dependence and service. The OS is a much better experience than windows (or linux), and for "normal work" I prefer Apple, especially with the privacy policy. But for 3d work and graphics I have to return to windows because I simply can't justify such prices.
Ok, another complaint of mine is periphery. I'm left handed and use my mouse with the left, buttons switched. That's no problem with the magic mouse but my gamer mouse I need for my graphic work will not be supported anymore with Big Sur. Even with Catalina I have to reconnect the mouse each time I (re-)start the Mac that this for me so important left-right-button-change gets recognized. There are mice which have their own OS where the switch can be stored (steel series had one for example, but to configure such a mouse I'd need a windows pc anyway). So Big Sur is somewhat a problem for me anyway (for a year or two I'm good with Catalina, but still).