All About SketchUp

[Felasco]

I'm curious if any of you use SketchUp. I'm especially interested to know if you import SketchUp models in to Cheetah. Here's why.

My interest is in creating scenes, and populating them with animated characters. I'm really enjoying creating scenes in SketchUp, even the free version is beyond awesome. They have a huge 3D Warehouse filled with free models you can just drop in to your own SketchUp scene. No file transfer hassles, such a joy!

Some degree of animation is possible within SketchUp, but it's pretty primitive all in all as SketchUp was never designed to be an animation platform. Correction, animating the camera in SketchUp is very easy and can create some great shots, but animating objects within scenes is pretty limited.

So I've been experimenting with a multi-software workflow which can get animated MakeHuman characters in to SketchUp scenes. Here's a video to illustrate, and thread to explain.

I was interested to see if I could combine SketchUp models and character animation in Cheetah.

I'm starting to get the hang of basic character animation in Cheetah, and that's going to be really fun. I'm so glad I "just said no" to Blender, as Cheetah looks so much easier.

I was able to import one of my SketchUp models in to Cheetah. It does import, but pretty much looks like crap. Didn't surprise me too much, as my experience is that trying to move any 3D model from one system to another very often results in FUBAR. Maybe I can learn to fix this, or maybe this is barking up the wrong tree.

Ideally I'd like to create the scenes and animate the characters all in one software. Not sure how realistic this goal is.

If you'd like to comment on any of the above from the perspective of your Cheetah experience, please do!

 

[ZooHead]

What format was the SketchUp model you tried to import?

 

[Felasco]

Thanks for your interest Zoohead. I'm using a free version of SketchUp (SketchUp Make 2017) and can only export in DAE. So that's what I imported in to Cheetah.

If anyone wishes to investigate further, the campground model I created SketchUp can be seen in this video. Whoops, file is too large to attach to this post. Can upload it to a server upon request.

I'm not so concerned with fixing this particular file, it's more an experiment to try to get a general idea how well SketchUp files will work/look in Cheetah. Can't draw any conclusions so far, as different files and more experienced users might make a big difference.

 

[Hasdrubal]

In my experience collada (.dae) was always a hit-and-miss format. Most of the time it was a problem of the exporter, not the target app. Some files will be without fault, some with a bit of disturbed geometry (or missing polys), some utter garbage.

Problem is, I also don't know SketchUp (and that will never change). Is there maybe a clean-up command that would repair errors in the geometry? (like vertices at the same point)? I'd use that. If you don't plan to work on that thing anymore in Cheetah you could try to triangulate it (which usually is not a good idea, if you can avoid it, but sometimes it works as I read (can't remember if I ever did this).

Another thing is to have a look at the file. Your preview app of the MacOS should be able to view a collada-file. If it looks the same as in Cheetah, you can be sure the export went wrong.

The only other thing you can do is to bring in another software into your workflow, for example blender, which is the only free 3d app I know (except DazStudio, that can import .dae, too). As much as I know (I don't touch Blender) it has more and different options (like different versions) for importing collada.

The one file-format I never had much trouble was always .obj (with some problems of it's own).

I know, you want to do things this way, but I'd let SketchUp be and use Cheetah instead. There is of course no warehouse, but you find tons of free models in the net (quite a lot even with commercial license), and you'll get used to building up a scene in Cheetah (as I said, I don't know much about Sketup ("google evil"), but with all other 3d apps I tried over the years, it's roughly the same to build up a scene; it looks just different ; it's one of the few 3d-apps I never even tested because it had not much to offer for me (for others it may be the perfect tool, of course). Because, with a SketchUp - Cheetah workflow you'll never have a guarantee that it works. So I'd use Cheetah only.

 

[Felasco]

Thanks for your comments Hadrubal.

In my experience collada (.dae) was always a hit-and-miss format.

In my admittedly limited experience, pretty much any time I try to move any 3D model from any environment to some other environment, most of the time there are problems. Thus, I'm not blaming Cheetah for anything, as FUBAR file transfers seem routine everywhere I go.

The only other thing you can do is to bring in another software into your workflow, for example blender

Aha, thanks for reminding me of this option. I don't know much about Blender, but I do know how to import DAE in to Blender and then export the model as FBX. Maybe that will help, will try it.

I know, you want to do things this way, but I'd let SketchUp be and use Cheetah instead.

I hear ya, and that may be necessary. But I'd be giving up a LOT. SketchUp is specifically designed for creating architectural environments, and I doubt I'd ever be able to accomplish the same with the same ease in Cheetah. As example, in SketchUp I can simply go to Warehouse, download a free house model someone spent 8 months creating, and then just drop it in to my scene. All done in less than a minute.

but you find tons of free models in the net

Yes, very true, and I've already spent many hours on this on sites like TurboSquid. In my experience, at least 90% of the time there are problems with the models when imported in to anything. Experts could probably fix many of the problems, but I'm definitely not an expert, and am fatally weary of such endless twiddling.

Within SketchUp, thousands of often excellent models are available for free, no file transfer hassles. Once you've had that experience, going back to twiddling with models becomes pretty difficult.

All that said, I'm definitely open to learning how to create simple scenes entirely in Cheetah. If anyone would like to show examples of what is possible I'd definitely be gratefully interested.

 

[Hasdrubal]

Look at the gallery in this forum. There is a lot about modeling, but you find some archviz-renders, too (like https://www.cheetah3d.com/forum/index.php?threads/12954/) and a lot of others things in way related to it. Not all of it is good, some even bad, some are WIPs (yeah, Zoo, I mean you. Finish your bicycle). Renderingwise you can't get the same quality out of Cheetah as say in May or Blender with Vray (a paid plugin that costs more than Cheetah. With cycles, the blender renderer, I never was much impressed). But there are a lot of examples what people create with Cheetah, and while some tools are missing, you can model anything as long as you know how to (which can be learned).

When I looked up SketchUp, I wasn't impressed, it's more CAD than 3d app (in lack of another word). You'll certainly be able to create better looking stuff in Cheetah than in SketchUp.

(Just as an aside: No, I don't really think that somebody spends 8 months creating the model of a house, except it's an architect planing the whole thing, with lots of changes and so on ...)

 

[Felasco]

There is a lot about modeling, but you find some archviz-renders, too (like https://www.cheetah3d.com/forum/index.php?threads/12954/)

Ah, thanks, yea, those renders look great. Ok, that tells me what I want to do is possible in Cheetah, very helpful, appreciate it.

Renderingwise you can't get the same quality out of Cheetah as say in May or Blender with Vray

I'm not at the point of being really fussy about renders. Cheetah rendering is perfect for me at this point, click the button and you're done. What renders I've done so far look good to me.

When I looked up SketchUp, I wasn't impressed

To each their own seems a good plan. I'm really not qualified to get in to a SketchUp vs. Cheetah debate, and am happy to have access to both.

What endeared me to SketchUp was that after 4 years of 3D frustration (##^&&*#!!!!!) in various other softwares (including Cheetah) SketchUp was the first software to be pretty much immediately fun. I watched a video or two and then was off to the races. That experience transformed my relationship with 3D and brought me back to Cheetah with a little more knowledge and a much better attitude.

That said, I'm not a SketchUp salesman so I have no argument if others wish to follow a different path.

 

[Swizl]

I get models from Sketchup warehouse all the time. They do have tons of problems though. They are triangulated already, which isn’t too bad unless you want to subdivide or bend any part of the mesh. The bigger problem to me are duplicate polygons on top of each other and flipped normals. Those can be fixed, but it takes some time to go through. The textures are usually low quality, but they can be swapped out for better ones. I know an architect that uses the paid for version of Sketchup and renders with Octane.

Way back when I first started playing around with 3D, I started with Sketchup. I never felt super comfortable using it, but it is great for making really accurate large building models.

 

[Hasdrubal]

Please, don't get me wrong. When I write "I", it's simply meant as my point of view. For others SketchUp can be exactly what they need, rather CADisch. But you can get more photorealism out of Cheetah.

Learning 3d can be very frustrating, but more the modeling and texturing parts of it. Even rendering is a bit more complicated when you want extra quality. Actually, it starts to get easy as soon as one stops to reinvent the wheel, so I'd recommend the tutorial section (on the other side, in 3d learning never stops, which probably is not everybody's cup of tea).

 

[Felasco]

Way back when I first started playing around with 3D, I started with Sketchup. I never felt super comfortable using it, but it is great for making really accurate large building models.

As a nature nut, it was interesting to me to see I could make landscapes that had nothing to with buildings. They might not be impressive to more experienced folks, but I'm a nube so I'm still thrilled by pretty much anything. Hey look! I made a cube!! Holy cow, a cube!!!!

 

[Felasco]

But you can get more photorealism out of Cheetah.

That could be, I really can't say. My impression so far has been that it depends on one's rendering tools and skills.

Which reminds me, are you guys familiar with Twin Motion, a real time rendering system from Epic Games, the Unreal Engine folks?

I found it really impressive, but just don't have the hardware necessary. You can quickly create all kinds of environments, edit them in real time, add snow, rain, time of day etc etc.

Here's some video intro by one of the leading SketchUp teachers.

Here's a quick summary promo trailer:

https://www.unrealengine.com/en-US/...Cbr_nXRuSbdi8qp2XP5SGiPb-NyOI40YaAkyCEALw_wcB

Another promo trailer

As I understand it, Twin Motion is not just for SketchUp but renders a number of different file types. It's $250, Windows and Mac.

 

[Swizl]

That could be, I really can't say. My impression so far has been that it depends on one's rendering tools and skills.

Which reminds me, are you guys familiar with Twin Motion, a real time rendering system from Epic Games, the Unreal Engine folks?

I found it really impressive, but just don't have the hardware necessary. You can quickly create all kinds of environments, edit them in real time, add snow, rain, time of day etc etc.

Here's some video intro by one of the leading SketchUp teachers.

Here's a quick summary promo trailer:

https://www.unrealengine.com/en-US/...Cbr_nXRuSbdi8qp2XP5SGiPb-NyOI40YaAkyCEALw_wcB

Another promo trailer

As I understand it, Twin Motion is not just for SketchUp but renders a number of different file types. It's $250, Windows and Mac.

Yep, I've seen where a lot of architectural firms are now using Unreal to do nearly photorealistic realtime renders. Pretty impressive stuff.

 

[Hasdrubal]

Yes, Twin Motion looks very good, thanks for the reminder. Actually, it's very difficult to keep an eye on everything around and somehow keep the overview (there are many very good renderers).

Unreal has in archviz almost become a standard for walk-throughs. It's not (yet) as photorealistic as it could get, it's all in all a game engine, but I, too, have seen a lot of very good renders.

Another archviz program that might interest you (but is out of the league as long as you don't make money with it or are an architect) is Lumion. It also works with SketchUp.

Actually you can do archviz with any 3d suite out there - be that C4d, Modo, Blender, Maya or Cheetah, and renderers like Maxwell, Vray, Keyshot -, but these are more "all-around" solutions, equally suitable for product design, advertisements, movies, whatever. They have in common that they don't handle CAD-data very well (often there exists a plugin for importing such things). To get really good renders out of CAD-data or animation, at the time you often have to retopologize the modols which is a piece of cake for those who are really, really used to it, but very tedious for us mere mortals.

 

[Felasco]

My favorite renderer so far is Cheetah. Click the render button and you're done.

I was just starting to explore rendering in SketchUp before I came here. It seemed a whole other universe of things to learn on top of learning SketchUp, and I just didn't want to render that bad right now.

I can see that the quality of my Cheetah renders will depend heavily on what I do with lights, but until I'm ready to learn the finer points I can just move the lights around in the scene until I see something I like.

 

[gurkanerol]

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