Parametric Modelling

#1
Martin,

Forgive me if you have answered this before; I have been a long time user but rarely visit the forums. I did a search to see if my question had already been asked but found nothing. So here goes:

Are you planning on leveraging your node editor framework to introduce a full-fledged node-based parametric modelling solution in the future?
IMHO it would garner a lot of interest in Cheetah3d if it had such functionality. Rhino is for many of us, too expensive to contemplate and Blender with Sverchok is too daunting, whereas Cheetah3d could be the sweet spot.

You have already laid the foundations by developing a node framework for material editing, but it may be informative to look at litegraph.js library (c) by Javi Agenjo.
https://github.com/jagenjo/litegraph.js

The users of Moi3d have built upon this library to bring this capabilities to its NURBS modeller:
http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=7713.457
http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=7777.1

Similarly, it could be a user-driven add-on for Cheetah3d if you did not want to invest too much of your valuable time being distracted from your core development work.

Anyway thank you for attention
and for your elegant software

James
 
Last edited:

Helmut

Well-known member
#2
* A massive support for this wish / dream.
* Having purchased Rhino / Grasshopper 3 or 4 years ago, I am still in the process of learning and experimenting. I am reluctant to agree that it is not daunting, but I am a post-pubertarian canine exhibiting the proverbial reluctance to be taught new tricks :sleep:
* It does, of course, require a (de)constructivist approach to geometry which is a major conceptual hurdle; I even snuck into some lectures by Patrick Schumacher on parametricism. He ran a course around the corner from my regular pub, previously in the Zaha Hadid master class.

* I am not familiar with the methods the Blender people are implementing. Involvement with Blender stimulates psychopathic rages in sensitive critters like me and leads to excessive intubation of fermented beverages :mad::devilish:

* As mentioned by the OP, James, a cheetah-fied nodal algorithmic modelling plug in should have a major effect on the user base of the C3D application.
* As our good Doctor is a certified and publicly licensed mathematician I suspect that he has - at least - toyed with such an idea. With some good luck my life expectancy will suffice to beta test the virginal versions of Cheetah 4D.
 
#4
@frank beckmann
why should such a model be rendered in any other way than a 'normal' model?

@all
If I understand paramethric modeling right (and I'm not so sure about that) this is procedural nurbs modeling? I agree with dotdash and helmut, that If this was possible, it certainly would be a game changer for Cheetah. It would be a good reason for many a professional to have this software around somewhere in the pipeline if it's well done. The imortant thing would be a good exporter.

But I'm not so sure if the node-editor work already done really helps as much. I think rather that it would be quite a lot of work (alone a subroutine that changes nurbs to all-quad-geometry (not only) for export would be a big task. So I'm not that optimistic to see this in the near future. But it certainly were worthwile.
 
#6
I regret mentioning NURBS...it has been a massive red herring. Parametric modelling is not the preserve of the solid modeller alone.

It is nothing more than a graphical programming interface for procedural scripting where bits of code are encapsulated in nodes with inputs for parameters. Rather than writing instruction in javascript the user wires nodes together to achieve a result.

But I'm not so sure if the node-editor work already done really helps as much.
I only meant the visual design of interface elements and theme were already in place to build upon. No doubt it would involve a lot of work.

If you haven't already, have look at litegraph?
https://github.com/jagenjo/litegraph.js

It is an open-source javascript node graph framework which is the basis of Moi3d's NodeEditor plugin. (Moi3d like C4D also uses javascript as their scripting language)

It could perhaps offer some direction of how Parametric design could be brought to C3D.

Finger Crossed
 
Last edited:
#7
@dotdash

Sorry that I got you wrong. NURBS and the mention of Rhino by Helmut somehow short-circuited some wires in my brain ;).

I'm not sure if you really mean just procedural modeling with a schematic view (at least in modo that's sometimes called parametric by 3rd parties, but it doesn't seem to fit fully the few descriptions I have read yesterday about parametric modeling).

This non-destructive approach is quite common nowadays. At the moment I don't believe it would bring many new customers to Cheetah, but in a few years it could be the new gold-standard and therefore be expected from any software around.

I agree with Helmut, that it is a 'conceptual hurdle'. It's a very abstract way to model something that I can't quite get used to, especially not in the schemativ view. I miss the sensual feeling I have for the model doing it the old-fashioned way. Where it's absolutely great for is producing similar objects with some different but repetitive steps almost eliminated. You just have to change a few parameters and get prefabricated objects in less than a minute that would you cost hours doing it the traditional way. Or for playing around when you don't have a concept to follow and are searching for the right look.

It certainly were a great addition to Cheetah (but not as much as a NURBS-Modeler. At the moment Rhino seems to be the only one around (although there are plugins for other 3d apps)).

Actually I do believe that Cheetah should have something, whatever it is, that's not available in any other software (or only via plugs), something that would and could make it worthwhile to have a few copies even in a studio.

@frank beckmann
Yes, but wouldn't that be already necessary to show the mesh in the 3d view? So when it's rendered it would have been tesselated before? If a fine-tune for the render is necessary (I don't know), wouldn't that be independent of the render engine?
 
#8
doesn't seem to fit fully the few descriptions I have read yesterday about parametric modeling).
Yes it is confusing, softs with ND interactive history are also called "Parametric". Helmut defined well my intended meaning: "nodal algorithmic modelling plug in" & he is right, as you said that it is a 'conceptual hurdle'. However if you are further along the spectrum than most, and who here isn't, it quickly becomes a conceptual space that you feel at ease in. AND it can be an incredibly rewarding endeavour.

Having said that, I have not used Grasshopper in Rhino, but instead my parametric modelling experience is all in MOI3D with NodeEditor. You can see that it has much but not all of GH's capability, if you look at gallery of experimentation:
https://www.instagram.com/nodeology/

I have for some time been contemplating learning Sverchok in Blender,
but the interface is impenetrable, whereas Cheetah3D & Moi3D share a very similar philosophy of UI/UX.

Anyway, maybe someday!
 
#9
@dotdash
Thanks a lot for your patience. Now I got your meaning.

(The term parametric modeling seems to be used everywhere where, well, you model only with some kind of parameters. I don't know if this broad use is correct).

What you want isn't as hard to implement as what I had in mind.
 
#11
Frank, are you saying that you have been inspired by litegraph?
Do you think it can be moulded to work with cheetah3d?
That would indeed be exciting!
James
 
#13
Guess I was on the wrong track
Sorry Frank, I was misdirected by your previous referencing "Litegraph" rather than "Instagram" in your earlier post.

no idea how that´s done.
Everything in the Insta - gallery was done with nodes only (ie no manual modelling & "No scripts used")

I like visual stuff like these
Looking at your links, I reckon that you would really get into node-based methodology. It is unrivalled at generating complex pattern that may be endlessly manipulated. And great fun!

All the best
James
 
Top