Attention: Metal, Big Sur and Apple Silicon

1. The M1-based Macs are already faster running Intel software than Intel Macs (except perhaps maxxed out pro models). Developers had some early issues with x86-based server software not working, but these already seem resolved.

1a. Emulation is the easiest way to support old software. Technologies like LLVM and enscripten allow almost any older hardware to be run by emulation on newer hardware. Don't worry about it.

2. Apple is the least privacy-invading of the big tech companies BY FAR. Amazon, Microsoft, and Google are bad. Facebook is the worst. This is because Apple makes money from its users, whereas the others make money from advertising. (Amazon makes more money from advertising than selling stuff.)

3. Laptops as we know them are likely going to be obsolete within 5-10 years. AR/VR goggles will replace displays sooner than you think (put on a pair of glasses and the entire world is your display and it's in 3D — Oculus Quest 2 is already very good and it's about to be replaced by a new generation system, Apple's AR product is expected by 2023), and performance/watt becomes so crucial than x86 would be a huge problem.
 
I should add that I've been playing around in VR since the early 2000s, and had a first gen Oculus Rift dev kit, a PS4 VR, as well as the current Oculus Quest 2. The Quest 2 is amazing, not quite "retina" but really really good. The big problem with the UI is that it requires you to hold clumsy controllers. And its outward facing cameras aren't nearly good enough for AR (they're basically to let you adjust your position without walking into furniture). My guess is Apple will simply track your hands—it's like the difference between needing a stylus and having a true touch display.

It's not clear you'll even need a keyboard if they get this stuff right. So you can use your iPhone + glasses (the iPhone is already more powerful than a mid-range PC laptop) to have an "infinitely large" display.
 
I have my "old" tec, solid, robust, repairable, upgradable... which i can maintain. I'm building the nearest future of my creative project around this "outdated" but very inspiring setup. Who needs speed which leeds only into nothingness.

If i can use my old tec to do my things, create new ideas with and keep them save, what do i need more?

My hope is that Cheetah3D will resist, stick to the users and not to the evil company Apple is now.
I think, as a general rule, catering to users of old, outdated tech is not a good direction for a software developer to head in. Personally, since owning a Mac Studio, the dramatic speed increase over my old Intel iMac has NOT has led me into nothingness. Yet.
 
Ken certainly has a point. Cheetah has for many years scaled pretty well with Apple hardware. It excels at taking advantage of whatever power is on offer.
 
Resist what? Resist updating to take advantage of new Apple hardware? Who would be helped by doing that, and how? Any commercial product needs to ensure they're taking good care of existing users, but they also need to ensure there's a path to acquire new users.

Cheers,
-Andre
Just reduced the quote to the core of the problem, progress by any means, commerce by any means... it is not my job to explain why creative minds should stay independent, in freedom - including the right to repair - including the right to build and upgrade their own systems matched to their needs,which may change with the time. Its a choice true, but always with consequences / a high price to speak in apples terms.

In german - damit es auch jeder versteht und sich in die beliebige Sprache übersetzen kann. Wer mit der Zeit geht, geht mit der Zeit!!! Es gibt nix Grausameres als den "Zeitgeist"!

Apples aktuelle Designs orientieren sich nicht mehr am Menschen / User! Selbst das UI hat so stark nachgelassen - Apple hat keine neuen Ideen mehr und bietet nur Sachen, die in Linux schon seit einem Jahrzehnt Gang und Gebe sind - mit Verweis auf Gnome und Adwaitas(Theme)-Tag-Nacht-Wechsel-Desktophintergrund (ein alter Hut). Pop!-Linux macht da vieles besser, schlanker und weniger protzig, oder die FedoraDesignSuite! Kein KlickiBunti, wie in den neuesten Apple-Machwerken!

Was nützt Apples zusammengeklebte Hardware, die nicht einmal einen Henkel fürs Wegwerfen hat (Idee!) - Die Leute dort sind so träge geworden, so selbstzufrieden, so überheblich, so dreist.... und werden deswegen sowas von auf die Nase fallen - eWaste fresh from store!

Just a hint - OSX is BSD - so MIT-License can be used - BSD as such becomes more popular - so why not choose this independent direction for further development or furthermore into linux - like Davinci Resolve and so on? You will be independent, if you decide so. Think about that!
 
The part with (Google-)translate probably works not that well and is kind of impolite in the English part of a forum ... But if one uses the free DeepL it should be understandable if one wants to try.

@Ca Rei
While I agree with you on some points, it doesn't change a thing about Martin's situation. He updates his software or game over.

And as I already tried to explain to you. As soon as you work in this field and aren't just a hobbyist, your choice is also very limited. And with Linux it's a little bit difficult that even Linux software doesn't run on all Linux derivates very well. So that's for some things kind of a show-stopper. As I said before: No customer is paying for the additional time if I use hardware that's too old, nor do they (or should they) accept subpar results.

If you suggest that Martin should abandon Apple and offer Cheetah for Linux, think twice. There would be a lot of work involved, because it ain't that easy just to switch, and I sincerely do not know if there is a market for even decently priced software on Linux. And most of the actual users wouldn't switch to Linux because of Cheetah.

If you suggest that Martin should stay on Apple and offer a Linux variant, that would be more reasonable but involve even more work. He wouldn't just to have to port it over to Linux, he would also have to maintain both apps. Which is kind of a lot of work for a single person.

Actually on can like Apple's hard- and software or not, buy it or not. It's nothing about "keeping up with the times", it's for a lot of people kind of a necessity, for hobbyists one of comfort and so on. Each one has his reasons for using the hardware he uses. I myself mostly use Windows these days for graphics related work (and nothing else), but I still see some advantages in the Macs and one day maybe will change back. Who knows.

If I really had a good alternative for all the software I use, I would switch to Linux. At the moment that's out of the question. But nothing stops you from using Linux, especially as the hardware is way more reasonable priced. To each his own.
 
But nothing stops you from using Linux, especially as the hardware is way more reasonable priced. To each his own.
Warnung! Der Spruch "Jedem das seine" stammt aus dunkler Vergangenheit (1933-45)... nur ein Hinweis.

Linux hat in meinen Augen gaaanze andere Probleme seit Sommer 2018, SJWs und diesen furchtbaren neuen Code of Conduct basierend auf den Machwerken von Coraline Ada Ehmke der mittlerweile sein SozialJustice-Gift in den LinuxKernel! verbreitet hat - und sich diverse LinuxDistributionen von ihm (dem neuen CoC) distanziert haben - und MOB implementiert (welches auch patreon um diese Zeit eingeführt hat, da war ich dort aber schon lange weg) (MOB = manifest. observ. behaviour?) Worauf auch nach 10 Jahren oder länger nach der Feststellung von Vergehen gegen den >aktuellen< Code of Conduct restriktive Maßnahmen, bis hin zur Löschung des eingebrachten Codes (auch wenn dieser bereits 10 Jahre lang eingeflossen ist) durchgeführt werden können. Das nur am Rande. (sorry mein Englisch ist nicht so gut, um diese Problematik entsprechend in Englisch zu erklären *blush*)

Ich sagte mit keiner Silbe das ich mit Linux arbeite. Ich habe nur darauf aufmerksam gemacht mal in diese Richtung nachzudenken, wobei ich eher BSD (wegen der MIT-Lizenz) den Vorrang geben würde, aus besagten Gründen.

I have made my descissions under my circumstances... I will do what i can do in the frame of my possibilities... and by the way no one pays me! I have my project - i'm researching (at own costs) - i'm on my own (+way) with that - in my time, in my speed, with the items i like. Remember Inspiration needs time and creativity needs boredom ;-) I remember so many ideas which are born while the (slow) computer takes its time ;-)

However i wish you much luck with your dependencies, wishful thingies, awesome speeds... *shrug* i'm not a jetpilot.
 
I have dropped windows all together. The last hold out was my gaming rig, but that too is now running Linux and could not be happier. (Valves Proton is amazing and 99% of my windows gaming library works great on Linux.)

I still use a Mac daily at work and I still love Cheetah, but I have migrated most of my artwork load to Linux as well. I have been getting more comfortable with Blender, and although I still prefer Cheetah in almost every way, I no longer feel I am tied to Apple for my hobby/future plans.

And I gotta tell ya, it feels great! I no longer have to worry about hardware failing, no repair options or not being able to afford new. I have also finally fully dropped Adobe. No more Photoshop for me as Krita works great and is multi platform.

There is something to be said about not being tied to a specific platform or OS for sure.

I would love to see Cheetah on Linux though. I would buy it again in a heartbeat if it was.

(To be honest I would probably buy a new version even if it was still MacOS only)
 
Warnung! Der Spruch "Jedem das seine" stammt aus dunkler Vergangenheit (1933-45)... nur ein Hinweis.

Nope, it doesn't come from that time. It's coming from suum cuique, and is well used in a lot of languages since. It's no problem in English, French or Suaheli, it's one in Germany, but even in German not in my country. Just as an aside. (And those bastards used it in another sense than it's used today here around. They meant it more in the sense of Friedrich. And by the way, those bastards (which is the only word that comes to mind I actually may use in a forum) didn't have one single original thought. Not one).

I also didn't write that you work with Linux. I just wrote that nothing stops you from using it. It's not the same. (In German: Niemand hindert dich daran, es zu nutzen).

I do not have anything against Linux in itself. I absolutely loved UNIX, and Kernighan and Ritchie were pure geniuses to create that system (to create it they had to develop C first). I have a little problem with so many distributions that do not seem to be 100 % compatible (at least there can be problems for some software), and some of them aren't trustworthy at all. That's my whole gripe with it, and I'm sure I'd find a distribution I could live with. Actually I'd prefer using Linux over Windows (not over MacOS, though).

My real problem with that is simple that the software I use, doesn't work on Linux. It's not just the graphics software, it's also what I use for writing (no, not Word) and worst of all, the accounting software (alone for that I'd need a windows partition). All this is available for Windows and Mac, not for Linux. It didn't cost me an additional dime for software to switch from Mac to Windows for the graphics related stuff (actually only for the writing software I'd have to buy a new license, and only Cheetah and Logic Pro aren't available for Windows).

As another aside: The one thing I would have preferred would have been a fully windows compatible OS not from MS. For a time it seemed as if there was at least a hint of hope with ReactOS but that's developed for some 20 years and still in an early alpha.

And as I said before, I think it's great that you have the perfect solution for yourself. It's just that it wouldn't work for everyone else. Especially the part that nobody pays you would be kind of troublesome for me and quite a lot of others.

Also, please don't forget, that different minds work differently. I don't buy "inspiration needs time" or "creativity needs boredom". Of course, I had good ideas under the shower or shortly before I fell asleep, as everyone else, but, luckily, that's not the only way to get them. Often I have them instantly when I need them. Or they come when I play around with forms or words, or when I write down what the thing I have to do actually should accomplish (idea or not, when I work for example on a Logo, that's always the way to start). And if I draw a blank I do work on something completely different, read or even watch a movie. When the brain is (seemingly) occupied with other stuff, the subconscious has time to cook something up. And the last resolution is this: "Do you have any idea?" to my wife. And sometimes, yes, it takes some time (if you don't have to be finished in a certain time frame it's ok. If you have a deadline you simply don't have time for that). But if I am actually bored (which is almost never), I fall asleep.

At last, no I do not feel that I am dependent on an OS. But the OS I like most today is actually MacOS. It has a lot of advantages imho, the only downside the price Apple demands (at least as soon as you want some additional memory or such). The funny thing is, that they could dominate the market with more reasonable pricing.

P.S.: Whatever you mean with "wishful thingies" ...
 
that nothing stops you from using it = niemand stoppt dich es zu nutzen, meint um mich stoppen zu können, ist dessen Nutzung bereits vorausgesetzt! Das kann man sehen wie bei Vikings = We, Kings! (hat die Sprachforschung ergeben) Nur nen Hinweis.

Apple OS is bound to the hardware - the hardware has the Serial-Number.

Wishful thingies - spielt auf "Die gierigen Dinge des Jahrhunderts" (Buch) an.

Speed is a drug - "inspiration needs time" or "creativity needs boredom" has this fact in mind, i dont want to go deeper into that, because there is a thesis, that creativity is simply steeling ideas... for the sake of speed, success and profit, which i do not like. Live as such does not know about profit nor is it profitable.

Backtotopic - i hope Martin finds a solution he can live with. i wish him the best.
 
(nothing stops you = niemand hält dich davon ab. Kann gebraucht werden für etwas, das bereits in Gebrauch ist, oder etwas, das jemand künftig benutzen will. We, Kings. Nein, das hat mit Sprachforschung exakt nix zu tun und ist grundfalsch. Die Sprache so um 900 oder früher hat mit dem heutigen Englisch auch nichts zu tun, also kann man selbstgebaute Ableitungen getrost vergessen. Frag einfach einen Indogermanisten, der dir gerne erläutern wird, warum solche Herleitungen ohne Sprachkenntnisse reiner Nonsens sind).

And Speed is a drug usually wouldn't mean a pc. I'm all for slowing down, changing the whole society so it gets less performance oriented because the actual predator capitalism is killing us and the world. Literally. But in a perfect society everything would be built on the highest quality standards, be that a car or a computer (in the later case meaning the fastest one) and that for a very reasonable price. The cheap stuff is just a waste of precious resources.

By the way, any new and several times faster pc (mac or otherwise) eats up far less power than the old stuff.

About creativity we can discuss in another thread (or not), but don't argue with nature, because you could as well say: "A squirrel doesn't wear trousers!"

And the solution Martin has found, is developing Cheetah for the new hardware because that's the only sound business model.
 
(nothing stops you = niemand hält dich davon ab. Kann gebraucht werden für etwas, das bereits in Gebrauch ist, oder etwas, das jemand künftig benutzen will. We, Kings. Nein, das hat mit Sprachforschung exakt nix zu tun und ist grundfalsch. Die Sprache so um 900 oder früher hat mit dem heutigen Englisch auch nichts zu tun, also kann man selbstgebaute Ableitungen getrost vergessen. Frag einfach einen Indogermanisten, der dir gerne erläutern wird, warum solche Herleitungen ohne Sprachkenntnisse reiner Nonsens sind).
nothing stops you = nichts stoppt dich (alta falta)

Du bist jetzt aber kein Troll oder sowas? Never!
And Speed is a drug usually wouldn't mean a pc. I'm all for slowing down, changing the whole society so it gets less performance oriented because the actual predator capitalism is killing us and the world. Literally. But in a perfect society everything would be built on the highest quality standards, be that a car or a computer (in the later case meaning the fastest one) and that for a very reasonable price. The cheap stuff is just a waste of precious resources.

By the way, any new and several times faster pc (mac or otherwise) eats up far less power than the old stuff.
but the production of the new stuff eats more rarer ressources and the old stuff adds to landfill = eWaste :p "Weg damit, weg damit... morgen gibts ja Neues"!! (Zitat aus einer Kindersendung aus den 80ern)

Das der Speedrausch und die Gier nach ständig Neuem gerade auf den Computersektor (Soft- wie Hardware) nun nicht zu treffen soll, vage ich vehement zu bestreiten, denn diese Aussage ist GRUNDSÄTZLICH falsch!
About creativity we can discuss in another thread (or not), but don't argue with nature, because you could as well say: "A squirrel doesn't wear trousers!"

And the solution Martin has found, is developing Cheetah for the new hardware because that's the only sound business model.
business model = Geschäftsmodell - jetzt reden wir endlich Klartext - und genau das ist es auch warum wir beide da ein ums andere Mal aneinander geraten - Die Geschäftwerdung der Welt! Die Natur kennt keinen Deal - Geschäft wie auch Profit ist Unnatürlich - ein Nullsummenspiel - was sich mit der Kreativität (weil naturbasiert) nun absolut beißt - das kann nicht funktionieren! Wenn wir beide über Kreativität reden meinen wir nicht ein und das selbe.

Das Echobubbles so zementiert sein können *lach* - Hinweis - der Kopf ist rund damit Gedanken die Richtung ändern können.
 
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Insulting others and believing that one's opinion is the only one that's correct is, with due respect, more a sign of an echo-bubble than what I wrote. Just as a hint. To keep it civilized, please, refrain from insulting me. If you did it on purpose or not isn't important.

Short aside about language: "Nothing stops you" is correctly translated in deeple as "nichts hält dich auf". Word-to-word translations seldom work. Also, it's kind of rude to accuse someone of trolling because he or she does interpret semantics in another way than you.

Production: As I said before, I am all for using hardware as long as possible. But a computer suited for 3d ten years ago is maybe better used for office work, the web and other tasks. I can only speak for myself here, but I use hardware as long as possible and / or give it a way as long as it can be of use for someone else. So it's more environment friendly if someone writes his e-mails on one of my older computers and I use a new one for my work. And you can turn it as you want: One day even your trusty old hardware will fail beyond repair.

My rendertimes nowadays for stills are something between 5 minutes and 4 hours, and that's some 10times faster than my older computer I use to write this. It's some 20 times faster (or more) than a top notch pc that's 10 years old. The one system that eats the least energy is also the fastest.

"Geschwindigkeitsrausch": It's just that I don't think that pc speed is a drug. I do agree that most people in the private sector wouldn't necessarily need a computer that does things they never do very fast. Nor would they need a new cellphone every year and so on. (By the way, I replaced mine just because 2g was switched off here around).

Business model: Again, I said it before, I somewhat agree and I really hate this predator capitalism with a bunch of super-rich (less then 1 percent is a rather conservative estimate) owning more than 99 % of all there is. While communism isn't the answer the system should be changed, adapted, and there are endless possibilities that never have been tried out. It probably will not happen and I see a gloomy future for mankind.

At the same time, usually people have to make a living somehow because all the bills have to be paid. It doesn't matter if we like it or not, it's our reality we have to live in. I simply have the choice to try to live in the woods till some policeman catches me (and then live for free in some kind of institution) or play the game at least to a certain degree. I still can sometimes say "no" to a customer, which is quite a luxury, but with the quality and the price I have to compete with others. So I need good hardware because otherwise I can't keep up. That's so for me, that's so for every other professional. It's useless, worthless and actually a waste of time to discuss it even. Because we can't change it. Maybe someday a guaranteed minimum income will come (the right usually is heavily against it), but that's at least years away in the best case (Also, profit isn't a zero-sum game as you could well see if you look at the environment. It's much worse than that).

If a hobbyist wants to get a good result in somewhat reasonably time he also needs good hardware. Because his spare time is also limited, and he or she usually doesn't have the time for 40 hours render. Even worse, somebody doesn't have to have my permission to get a new computer, it's entirely his or her choice, rightly so. It's not really our place to tell others what to do. We can make our statements, can argue for them, but in the end we have to accept that what's best for us not necessarily is the best solution for somebody else. (For example while I am a vegetarian for more than 20 years, and I see a lot of advantages be that for the health, the environment and last but not least the well-fare of living and feeling creatures, I never would tell someone: Stop eating meat! If one starts a discussion or asks me about it, I will answer and certainly argue for it, but only then. Because every one has the right to make his choices).

I sincerely don't know if you and me have the same view what creativity even is. Like I said, we can discuss it in another thread, because that's something that really concerns (3d) artists. But to create something really new with nothing camparable, that's nowadays almost impossible, if so, only in abstract art (and, looking at art magazines, even there has gotten difficult). So is it creative when I paint a flower? Because they have been painted a million times before. Is it creative when I paint a flower that doesn't exist? Or can I put it in a way on paper that others can depict something new in the flower, get some emotion they wouldn't have without looking at the picture and so on. Even than one could argue about the degree of creativity but at least it would be art. As I said, such thoughts belong to another thread.

In here we both have said what we haid to. And it's totally, utterly irrelevant what we think about it in the theme of this thread.

In the end it's Martin's choice how and what he will develop for Cheetah, it's the choice of each user's to get any hardware he fancies or to buy a new version of Cheetah or not.
 
* An important argument is missing in the above (somewhat acrimonious) exchange on creativity:
* A major and fundamental component of creativity is the technology available.
* Without computers, no animated 3D graphics,
* without cinematography, no Citizen Caine and no M,
* without combustion engines no cars, trucks and planes,
* without calculus no Einstein,
* without written language (scripts) no Homer and no Shakespeare,
* without metallurgy (Bronze Age) no Sumerians and all the rest; we would still be living in the advanced neolithicum.

* And to some extent, such musings on creativity (invention and innovation) also feed back into the discussion on capitalism. Developing tools and technology requires artisans, needs scientists and thinkers, requires ample time and money for lots of failures and few successes.

* Michelangelo, Shakespeare, Beethoven, Einstein and many more were paid by capitalists (popes, monarchs, nobility, the Swiss state).
* Lacking such capitalist sponsors, the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel would have been painted by Michelangelo using a 30cm foam roller in the lime green paint I associate with public urinals and olfactory irritation. Not a single tourist and barely a cardinal in a papal conclave would be bothered to cast their glances upward.
 
@Helmut:

That the available technology is fundamental is somewhat self-explanatory in a forum about 3d. In my case it's even so that no one would pay me for traditional drawing (I am simply not good enough but can do a lot with the help of modern software) and without computers I'd probably wither away in some office.

There are many other things not mentioned, like cultural backgrounds (and the clash of different cultures which can result in a lot of inspiration and way better dishes (yes, I mean food)), and so on. That's why I think this stuff should be discussed in another thread (if at all).

With the part about capitalism I somewhat agree (well, if you want to include systems like feudalism, mercantilism and the different forms of "true" capitalism under that umbrella). I mostly have a problem with today's predator capitalism, the neo-liberalism, that started with Reagan and Thatcher. Before that time bankers earned enough, but the modern "investment banks" that created the crisis of 2007 / 2008 didn't exist, nor the exorbitant salaries for people who are gambling with whole economies. I have a problem with "economy", a construct of the mind, actually being seen as important or even more important than the reality. It should be the most important thing to do whatever we can against the impact of climatic change. I have a gripe with "working poor" and so on (here around are actually people who have so much to pay for the mandatory health insurance that they can't even afford to go to the doctor anymore (you have to pay yourself up to 3,75 k yourself of the real costs). I could elaborate more. A lot of today's capitalism is based on exploiting others and we slowly move toward the full circle where it all began some 200 years ago. And we do not even live in a free market economy.

A few months ago I already mentioned in this thread that our modern view of artists, together with the romanticized view that they should live for art and have to suffer and to be poor, is rather new. It came to life in the second half of the 19th century (while at the same time colonialism was in its heyday, something that you can see also as part of capitalism, if you want to, and it certainly put profit over the welfare of some natives (the Hereros are a good example). Anyway, the old masters themselves didn't have that inclination that they were "artists", they just were artisans. (I also mentioned the factory-like workshops). And, honestly, I believe that was by far the healthier and sounder view.

But one could as well argue that "capitalism" (in your wider sense) made as much art impossible as it helped to create. You probably know some pictures that have been butchered by the studio execs (sometimes they could be restored later on, sometimes a lot was just thrown away). There are books never published (or even written), paintings never painted, movies and music not produced, because it wasn't seen as profitable or the artist was to poor for art school (or any education) or too busy to make a living.

There weren't enough of patrons of the arts (in some country the government helps out a bit).

Just an example: Works of writers like Raymond Chandler and Ross MacDonald were heavily butchered in the German translations, so much so, that they sometimes didn't make much sense anymore. This was, of course, mostly done for economic reasons, because they thought that some 400 page crime novel never would be read. So it had to be shortened to some 180 pages.

So, in the end, I'd like to see a fairer world and at least one where I don't get the feeling that the expiration date hasn't passed. That could be well accomplished in some capitalistic form.

To come somewhat back to the actual theme: To accomplish that we need more and better technology in my view, not less (ideally available for everyone who wants it).
 
* Michelangelo, Shakespeare, Beethoven, Einstein and many more were paid by capitalists (popes, monarchs, nobility, the Swiss state).
* Lacking such capitalist sponsors, the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel would have been painted by Michelangelo using a 30cm foam roller in the lime green paint I associate with public urinals and olfactory irritation. Not a single tourist and barely a cardinal in a papal conclave would be bothered to cast their glances upward.
Just to keep it short - Big(?) names from times of feudalism and kapitalism-machinery (childworker!) - from the ages of exploitation, really? in 2022 (after the well documented cases of child abuse?? And you don't think that sounds wrong? Not i single tourist should visit this swamp of crimes. Each profit (business) and offcourse taxes (church, monarchs) was made out of exploitation, made of the blood, sweat and tears of the poor, dammit! Those buildings and questionable "artworks" are witness of those dark+evil ages for the time being.

Look i'm born differently - i do not need to explain the why and how - so i have a different corsage of values from birth on. I'm analog + classic educated in (thank god) 25 Years of peace - i'm an analog-native but i like computers, as long they are used with consciousness.

I dont want to discuss my values here - but they are seriously different then your boths. I'm for Slow Design - similiar to Slow Fashion - again i will keep the things short - if you dont know, or you dont WANT to know, what i mean - watch this Y2be-movie and maybe you learn/understand/care-about something.

Yeah @Hasdrubal you dont pay much attention to the things i've showed you - you had your chance tofind out what i'm after - but you have sucked miserably (from my point of view) - the matched thread is just an empty hollow and can be simply deleted). Hopefully you will look closer - this time with more interest and less arrogant ;-)

it is a counter-proposal - some how like - "make your work liveable!" - there will be no balancing needed - just live and work at the same time! No deadlines, no stress, no burnout, no selfexloitation. Do not be industrial! It seemed offtopic but by any means it is not. Attention to the deeper sense of my words!
 
* As you are convinced of the superiority of your views there is no point to participate in your self-righteous supremacist monologue.
 
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