Ouch - should have known better. :mrgreen:
To define a personal default file would be nice - agreed.
Cheers
Frank
Cheetah3D 7 - Free Upgrade Promo - Mac App Store
- Thread starter Martin
- Start date
To define a personal default file would be nice - agreed.
Cheers
Frank
Somian
0
App Store
Hey,
I've been a Cheetah3D User for years and bought it from the App Store.
I understand your reasons why you don't want to put it in the app store anymore. I'm however, really afraid, that 3rd-party DRM is going to spoil Cheetah3D.
Prior to the App store, I had a load of Apps that i purchased from various sources. Each had their own serial number, DRM system, update system and so on and it was really annoying to keep track of them all. For some reason, every other day or so, an app asked for the serial number again. Or an Update didn't work for some reason. Some apps were bound to a certain user but didn't work when another user logged into the computer. Some apps required root access. Some apps didn't work anymore after being restored from a time machine backup. Some apps had problems with being frequently uninstalled and re-installed (I do that a lot using the app store, because my macbook only has a 128GB SSD). Oh hey, and sometimes the registration servers were down or abandoned and I couldn't use the App anymore…
The AppStore fixed all this.
I'm looking forward to the new version of Cheetah3D and i'll buy the upgrade to Cheetah3D if it doesn't have any of these problems.
I will not buy the upgrade, if I have to fiddle with serial numbers again. I re-purchased multiple apps from the app store when the app store became available, and I'm not looking back to have this mess (I even had purchased an app that handled all the serial numbers… but one day I couldn't find the serial number for that app)… I also won't buy the upgrade if it's user-bound. this is a major problem. I use every license only once, but I'm sometimes teaching 3D, which means a guest user will log into my computer (so they can't tinker with my private projects and data) and I don't want to "register" my software again every time a new guest user logs in. I also don't want any app to require root access just to install some DRM stuff on my mac, not telling me where exactly it is. That's the reason I replaced Premiere, photoshop and illustrator with final cut pro, pixelmator and sketch (from the app store). This Adobe Stuff was just too intrusive for me.
AppStore apps I can just move to an external HDD and move them back when I need them on any of my Macs and they'll work instantly, without any serial fiddling and connecting to 3rd party license servers. They're still DRMed, but the apple DRM works so flawlessly that I never had a problem with that and I could easily use any mac where I logged in with my apple ID.
This basically means, in order to create a user experience that rivals that of the app store, the app will have to be DRM free.
I don't think, you can't really do upgrades in the app store, though. If there are cool new features you want to offer, you could offer them in an in-app purchase.
This way you wouldn't have to support the old version anymore, either.
To sum it up, i'd prefer Cheetah3D to be in the AppStore, but I'll consider buying it directly, if it's DRM free.
Hey,
I've been a Cheetah3D User for years and bought it from the App Store.
I understand your reasons why you don't want to put it in the app store anymore. I'm however, really afraid, that 3rd-party DRM is going to spoil Cheetah3D.
Prior to the App store, I had a load of Apps that i purchased from various sources. Each had their own serial number, DRM system, update system and so on and it was really annoying to keep track of them all. For some reason, every other day or so, an app asked for the serial number again. Or an Update didn't work for some reason. Some apps were bound to a certain user but didn't work when another user logged into the computer. Some apps required root access. Some apps didn't work anymore after being restored from a time machine backup. Some apps had problems with being frequently uninstalled and re-installed (I do that a lot using the app store, because my macbook only has a 128GB SSD). Oh hey, and sometimes the registration servers were down or abandoned and I couldn't use the App anymore…
The AppStore fixed all this.
I'm looking forward to the new version of Cheetah3D and i'll buy the upgrade to Cheetah3D if it doesn't have any of these problems.
I will not buy the upgrade, if I have to fiddle with serial numbers again. I re-purchased multiple apps from the app store when the app store became available, and I'm not looking back to have this mess (I even had purchased an app that handled all the serial numbers… but one day I couldn't find the serial number for that app)… I also won't buy the upgrade if it's user-bound. this is a major problem. I use every license only once, but I'm sometimes teaching 3D, which means a guest user will log into my computer (so they can't tinker with my private projects and data) and I don't want to "register" my software again every time a new guest user logs in. I also don't want any app to require root access just to install some DRM stuff on my mac, not telling me where exactly it is. That's the reason I replaced Premiere, photoshop and illustrator with final cut pro, pixelmator and sketch (from the app store). This Adobe Stuff was just too intrusive for me.
AppStore apps I can just move to an external HDD and move them back when I need them on any of my Macs and they'll work instantly, without any serial fiddling and connecting to 3rd party license servers. They're still DRMed, but the apple DRM works so flawlessly that I never had a problem with that and I could easily use any mac where I logged in with my apple ID.
This basically means, in order to create a user experience that rivals that of the app store, the app will have to be DRM free.
I don't think, you can't really do upgrades in the app store, though. If there are cool new features you want to offer, you could offer them in an in-app purchase.
This way you wouldn't have to support the old version anymore, either.
To sum it up, i'd prefer Cheetah3D to be in the AppStore, but I'll consider buying it directly, if it's DRM free.
Last edited:
I think you've expressed in a nutshell why the App Store is a Good Idea, and why, if at all possible, an app belongs there.
The "but Apple takes 30%" argument is bogus (unless you're Adobe, say). Steam, which doesn't do a fraction as good a job as the App Store, and acts like a steaming pile of malware, also charges 30%. Amazon charges more than 30% for books.
Martin's argument — the sandbox policy makes it impossible to conveniently import files that refer to other files (e.g. image-based materials) — seems valid on its surface, but it's not like C3D does a particularly good job of importing such files right now. If C3D automatically encapsulated bitmaps in its own files, I think this would be pretty much a non-issue.
In the end, I'll buy then next version of C3D no matter what, and I imagine most of the users of this forum will too. It's up to Martin to figure out what makes the most sense to him business-wise.
KurtF
0
I'm fairly certain that Cheetah 3D is like a word processor. There aren't any DRM restrictions. Any Cheetah scene file or model file that can be imported will come in cleanly. And any file you create, including final renders either stills or animated, are your property.
No DRM's. That mostly applies to Media players where content owners want to control (i.e. collect cash) what you can play, songs, videos, etc.
No DRM's. That mostly applies to Media players where content owners want to control (i.e. collect cash) what you can play, songs, videos, etc.
Glad to see there are others upset about the move away from the App Store for the same reasons I am. I had hoped that amongst the really interesting reveals about Metal for Mac in today's keynote there would be some nods for developers in changing the App Store policies. At the end of the day, despite the added restrictions of the App Store, I still feel it's worthwhile to exclusively get my software from there. I'm not going back to the world of serial numbers or DRM either.
I do wonder if I am the only person that doesn't have an issue with serial numbers. I have never found them to be that much of a pain, I have never lost one.
Other than Apple apps the only app store app i have is Afinity Designer, and I thought long and hard about weather I want to by from the app store.
Odd given I don't have that bigger issue with the iOS app store but then iOS is for phones (and tablets) so somewhat different in certain respects.
I think in general given the choice of from the developers site or the app store I will choose the developers site nine times out of 10.
As an example, friends recommended a game, the minute I saw it was Steam only I refused to buy it. I loath Steam with a passion, but thats a different thread
License servers though, thats a different story, thats worse than having to have a dongle to run the software.
Other than Apple apps the only app store app i have is Afinity Designer, and I thought long and hard about weather I want to by from the app store.
Odd given I don't have that bigger issue with the iOS app store but then iOS is for phones (and tablets) so somewhat different in certain respects.
I think in general given the choice of from the developers site or the app store I will choose the developers site nine times out of 10.
As an example, friends recommended a game, the minute I saw it was Steam only I refused to buy it. I loath Steam with a passion, but thats a different thread
License servers though, thats a different story, thats worse than having to have a dongle to run the software.
Somian
0
Steam is another story and not part of the OS as the AppStore is.
When I have the choice of buying a game on gog.com or steam, i'd choose gog, because it's DRM-free and less of a hassle to run.
However, the AppStore is so good (not perfect, though), that I consider buying it from the app store simply to have this awesome "purchased" screen on all my macs right away.
When I have the choice of buying a game on gog.com or steam, i'd choose gog, because it's DRM-free and less of a hassle to run.
However, the AppStore is so good (not perfect, though), that I consider buying it from the app store simply to have this awesome "purchased" screen on all my macs right away.
I agree. It basically boils down to him wanting more money for almost nothing. Sadly Cheetah 3D doesn't hold a candle to Blender, yet he charges $99 bucks for it, and now that version 7 is finally going to contain (a few things) every other 3D has had since the 1990 (soft selection) he is going to charge $60 bucks for it. I wouldn't call that an upgrade to something that costs $100, I would call it a rip-off.
Also, I don't even know if you can download Cheetah 6 again if you did buy it from the app store. Has anyone confirmed they can?
Also, I don't even know if you can download Cheetah 6 again if you did buy it from the app store. Has anyone confirmed they can?
Podperson, you normally know better.
I wouldn't call Cheetah anything amazing. It is a small notebook of a 3D app that does nothing special.
Some apps, like Infinity Designer, are hot. They don't just do what illustrator does, they do it better, faster, and have a personality all its own.
I wouldn't call Cheetah anything amazing. It is a small notebook of a 3D app that does nothing special.
Some apps, like Infinity Designer, are hot. They don't just do what illustrator does, they do it better, faster, and have a personality all its own.
Oh I appreciate your comment. I'm just saying I found two ridiculous examples before I even got to your — hilariously awesome — example, thus missing comedy gold
It's absolutely ridiculous that C3D was "too niche" to get featured (or at least on the front page) when such ridiculous crap routinely makes it there. (Heck the checkerboard program looks like something someone created while learning to program.)
Somian
0
Yes, I am still able to download it and I'm using it.
I prefer Cheetah 3D over blender because it's easy to use and well integrated with OS X. I'm only missing the "versions" feature. I happily spent 80€ or something for it and I didn't regret it until I heard that the next version isn't available in the app store.
Luckily, it's quite stable so I can work with it. It crashes sometimes and if these crashes get fixed in version 7, I won't be happy to hear that I have to pay to get the bugfixes.
The only feature I really miss right now is the ability to bake normal maps, along with an improved UV editor (multiple maps etc.)
I don't really need soft selection because I usually work lowpoly with subdivision mofiers.
I prefer Cheetah 3D over blender because it's easy to use and well integrated with OS X. I'm only missing the "versions" feature. I happily spent 80€ or something for it and I didn't regret it until I heard that the next version isn't available in the app store.
Luckily, it's quite stable so I can work with it. It crashes sometimes and if these crashes get fixed in version 7, I won't be happy to hear that I have to pay to get the bugfixes.
The only feature I really miss right now is the ability to bake normal maps, along with an improved UV editor (multiple maps etc.)
I don't really need soft selection because I usually work lowpoly with subdivision mofiers.
I hear you about the bug problems.
I know this sounds crazy, and I know you won't buy this theory, but here me out for 1 minutes with a clear mind, then you can laugh at me.
Like you, I was stuck between a rock (Cheetah 3D) and a hard place (Blender). I know cheetahs interface is crap, and I know it doesn't fit in well in OS X ....
but ...
but ....
but ....
if you simply download blender, and pretend you have no knowledge of 3D, and take one of there courses or buy a book on it, then spend only (important) only 20 mins a week on it, wow in two or three months you would never look back.
You don't have to pay for bug fixes.
The feature list (even if you don't need it) is amazing.
And you don't have to be held hostage by an individual developer who takes 5 years to add 1 feature, and makes wild changes to business model (App store NOT!).
You will be amazed at blender 3D if you approach it this way.
Now you can laugh at me.
I know this sounds crazy, and I know you won't buy this theory, but here me out for 1 minutes with a clear mind, then you can laugh at me.
Like you, I was stuck between a rock (Cheetah 3D) and a hard place (Blender). I know cheetahs interface is crap, and I know it doesn't fit in well in OS X ....
but ...
but ....
but ....
if you simply download blender, and pretend you have no knowledge of 3D, and take one of there courses or buy a book on it, then spend only (important) only 20 mins a week on it, wow in two or three months you would never look back.
You don't have to pay for bug fixes.
The feature list (even if you don't need it) is amazing.
And you don't have to be held hostage by an individual developer who takes 5 years to add 1 feature, and makes wild changes to business model (App store NOT!).
You will be amazed at blender 3D if you approach it this way.
Now you can laugh at me.
I also use both. It's funny that some users want to use just 1 app. Just use 1 or more apps together. Blender is free so learn blender and use Cheetah if needed. Personally , I use blender for big interior scenes. The lighting is better and cycles makes a big difference. Cheetah is good for making objects -> that you can import in Blender if needed.
holobyte
0
Here are my two cents. I understand that there are difficulties with the sandboxing model for OS X application developers. Panic's Coda, BBEdit and now Cheetah3D are examples of this. This is Apple's issue, not developers! After Panic announced their MAS exodus, I asked my employers, corporate Apple rep about it and he said it's a challenge that Apple is aware of and is doing its best to remediate. Apple KNOWS this Sandboxing hell is their issue, same with upgrades. Why haven't they figured that out yet either? More and more MAS exodus have followed with more looming. Sigh...
Cabel Sasser and the team at Panic, Rich Segal from BBedit, and of course Martin are incredibly smart, resourceful people, who have been doing this for years. If they cannot figure it out, then it's a hard problem or one that they simply cannot address with out Apple. If Martin says it's a waste of time to keep trying to band-aid the support then I believe him and would rather he quit MAS distribution if it is taking time from other development needs.
And for the record I love and BUY as much software from the MAS as I can, but my point is we cannot blame the developers if they cannot support and keep their products on there due to Apple.
As with anything, if you don't like the price or the product itself, go use something else that tickles your fancy. Personally, I used to use Carrara and got sick of the politics behind DAZ, the slow upgrades and attention to their dolls and trinkets, so I made a decision to stop using it. I lost money, but I can make a new start.
Is Cheetah3D perfect? No, not by any means. It is missing some core functionality as well as amenities that other 3D programs have had for over a decade, but it is accessible and make-like. With better Open GL viewports, preview/spot renders and a faster, more robust render I have all that I need for my needs at this time. I paid 99$ for the product and feel in NO Way ripped off. For my current needs it does the job well.
My two cents.
Cabel Sasser and the team at Panic, Rich Segal from BBedit, and of course Martin are incredibly smart, resourceful people, who have been doing this for years. If they cannot figure it out, then it's a hard problem or one that they simply cannot address with out Apple. If Martin says it's a waste of time to keep trying to band-aid the support then I believe him and would rather he quit MAS distribution if it is taking time from other development needs.
And for the record I love and BUY as much software from the MAS as I can, but my point is we cannot blame the developers if they cannot support and keep their products on there due to Apple.
As with anything, if you don't like the price or the product itself, go use something else that tickles your fancy. Personally, I used to use Carrara and got sick of the politics behind DAZ, the slow upgrades and attention to their dolls and trinkets, so I made a decision to stop using it. I lost money, but I can make a new start.
Is Cheetah3D perfect? No, not by any means. It is missing some core functionality as well as amenities that other 3D programs have had for over a decade, but it is accessible and make-like. With better Open GL viewports, preview/spot renders and a faster, more robust render I have all that I need for my needs at this time. I paid 99$ for the product and feel in NO Way ripped off. For my current needs it does the job well.
My two cents.
Last edited:
Albert
0
TRUE THAT!
Jessy
0
Apple has done quite a lot of good for 3D with Metal, and their simd library in Swift, this year. The tools are there, but developers need to take advantage of them.
At WWDC, Apple had Jack Greasley demo MODO. Not Adobe. Not even Autodesk. Photoshop was mentioned to be taking advantage of Metal, but MODO is what got the spotlight. Jack also demo'd MARI when the garbage can Mac Pro was announced.
Things have changed. There's an opportunity for Cheetah to get help from Apple, but it's not happening with OpenGL.
Last edited:
Yup, the "Mac guys" working on MODO for the Foundry seem to be really excited about Metal. When you are around evangelists like that its infectious.
The problem with Apple however since the iPhone was released is that they no longer have a real vision for OS X outside of iOS. Not truly. So I think its hard to know if Metal is something that Apple is really going to get behind, or if they'll Microsoft themselves and abandon it because there is some kind of internal politics around it that will kill it. Its hard to tell. Apple hasn't been Apple for 10 years now. They still have the consistent PR, and tight product line, but its clear that the company has been much less about developing a cutting edge workstation and more and more about chasing revenue streams like a dog chasing squirrels.
The problem with Apple however since the iPhone was released is that they no longer have a real vision for OS X outside of iOS. Not truly. So I think its hard to know if Metal is something that Apple is really going to get behind, or if they'll Microsoft themselves and abandon it because there is some kind of internal politics around it that will kill it. Its hard to tell. Apple hasn't been Apple for 10 years now. They still have the consistent PR, and tight product line, but its clear that the company has been much less about developing a cutting edge workstation and more and more about chasing revenue streams like a dog chasing squirrels.
Jessy
0
I think the convergence between iOS and OS X has been useful in this case: Metal allows Apple to simplify, via not having to support OpenGL and OpenGL ES in their own applications and operating systems. Metal takes work off of the CPU, and so, saves battery life. Without iOS, there wouldn't have been an impetus to create something of this quality. What business reason would they have to not continue with something that they have full control over, that's designed for the hardware they select, and keeps them ahead of the competition?
It's interesting that you're making a distinction between iOS and OS X; I don't think there's a significant rift anymore, since the A7 dropped. An iOS port of Cheetah, for example, would make sense now, and will even more so with next year's giant iPad.