Slowly making progress...

Slowly making progress...

Hi everyone,

I posted this earlier in another thread, working with Smart Folders, but was afraid it might have gotten lost. I am re-posting from home hoping to have a response when I get to the office tomorrow. Thanks so much in advance.
Tim

I have been playing around with importing a SketchUp model into a smart folder and keeping the scenes that were created as I modeled. This is working well. I have noticed that I need to adjust the field of view but I think I am getting the hang of it.

One thing that I am having difficulty with is lighting. I can select a light, pick what type of light etc. I try to work simultaneously in plan and elevation to position the light where I think I want it but I am not sure what to use when and why.

Could someone please steer me in the right direction? I have looked in the gallery at some very impressive images. I would like to actually open up a model and note light positions and types and what results are possible with various configurations. I imagine a lot is by trial and error. I would just like a good example to use as a foundation to build on.

Thanks,
Tim
 
I need to expand this:

http://www.cheetah3d.de/forum/showthread.php?t=1934

But while you wait for me to do so, here's the overview:

There are two fundamental approaches to lighting, which I'll call cinematic and naturalistic.

Cinematic lighting is what they'll teach you at film school or for studio photography. It's exemplified by the three point lighting approach (main light, back light, fill light) and the idea is to make your subject look good, and stand out from the background.

Naturalistic lighting is what folks in archviz and special effects / post production tend to be interested in because they're trying to make something look realistic and/or blend into something that is already realistic (e.g. because it's real).

Naturalistic lighting is exemplified in Cheetah 3D by the sun light gizmo (which essentially tries to model sunlight based on latitude, longitude, time of day, etc.) and image-based lighting (which essentially attempts to represent all the incident light in a scene using an HDR image and then use that to light your model).

Each of these approaches can yield excellent results in very little time. You can build a three point lighting setup (with, say, two point lights and a spot, or three point lights) and just use it over and over again, tweaking it as required. However, of the three, Image Based Lighting is, by far, the best "bang for your buck". Google some HDR source images (or use the two which come with Cheetah), and you'll soon have some great looking renders.

Useful Links
Three Point Lighting
Three Point Lighting Tutorial (not Cheetah 3D specific)
Image Based Lighting
Hardcore IBL Tutorial (3DS Max based, but still useful) and a good reminder that you don't really need HDR images to use the technique.
 
Examples of what I am after...

Let me give a little more background as to our needs. I model kitchens in SketchUp. These kitchens are built in our studio, photographed and used in print media. I come from an architectural rendering background. We use to model just enough and hand draw and paint the concept for the client to approve. Over the years, we developed a trust with our client so the rendering wasn't necessary any more. But we still use the model as a design tool, a model more detailed than before to show to our clients.

I am attaching a couple of different examples that were posted on this forum. I would like to do something similar to these. As I said earlier, I model in SketchUp and as many of you know, the rendering options aren't great. That's okay because up until now all I needed was a simple model, no frills, no rendering. I don't want to show everything that we showed in our hand renderings but I do want to get materials and lighting across in my model. I am also attaching a screen shot of the model we used for the hand rendering. As you can see, it is bare bones but it was enough to do what we needed.

That is what I am after. I would welcome any suggestions.
Thanks so much,
Tim




What kind of work are you trying to do? Photorealistic Archviz or other?
 

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Here is the hand rendering...

I meant to attach this earlier.
 

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Thanks for the tips. I will check these out.
Tim


I need to expand this:

http://www.cheetah3d.de/forum/showthread.php?t=1934

But while you wait for me to do so, here's the overview:

There are two fundamental approaches to lighting, which I'll call cinematic and naturalistic.

Cinematic lighting is what they'll teach you at film school or for studio photography. It's exemplified by the three point lighting approach (main light, back light, fill light) and the idea is to make your subject look good, and stand out from the background.

Naturalistic lighting is what folks in archviz and special effects / post production tend to be interested in because they're trying to make something look realistic and/or blend into something that is already realistic (e.g. because it's real).

Naturalistic lighting is exemplified in Cheetah 3D by the sun light gizmo (which essentially tries to model sunlight based on latitude, longitude, time of day, etc.) and image-based lighting (which essentially attempts to represent all the incident light in a scene using an HDR image and then use that to light your model).

Each of these approaches can yield excellent results in very little time. You can build a three point lighting setup (with, say, two point lights and a spot, or three point lights) and just use it over and over again, tweaking it as required. However, of the three, Image Based Lighting is, by far, the best "bang for your buck". Google some HDR source images (or use the two which come with Cheetah), and you'll soon have some great looking renders.

Useful Links
Three Point Lighting
Three Point Lighting Tutorial (not Cheetah 3D specific)
Image Based Lighting
Hardcore IBL Tutorial (3DS Max based, but still useful) and a good reminder that you don't really need HDR images to use the technique.
 
I love the hand sketch.

Here are some screen shots for the modern office you posted. I will tell you though it took me almost three full days to tweak the lights in that scene - I was still new to the program so I could do it faster now I think but a day to adjust lights is probably reasonable.

Hope this helps.
 

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Yes, this helps...

This is what I wanted to see. Excuse my ignorance but is the area light the light out in front of the space? Once our kitchens are designed, we turn them over to our construction crew and then to the stylists and photographers. I know it takes time to light the sets. Sounds like it takes about the same to do it for real as it does in the computer.

We still illustrate by hand. The computer is just another tool we use. Hopefully, I'll get the hang of the computer too.

Thanks,
Tim


I love the hand sketch.

Here are some screen shots for the modern office you posted. I will tell you though it took me almost three full days to tweak the lights in that scene - I was still new to the program so I could do it faster now I think but a day to adjust lights is probably reasonable.

Hope this helps.
 
Tim,

The area lights are the squares, you could probably use point lights though. Here is a great post using Cinema 4D I found, this guys work is excellent too.

Re: internal lighting

aye, interior lighting in the AR is an art in itself, but most satisfying when done correctly and in reasonably decent render times.

speed is your main concern - whatch out on blurry materials and high sampled area shadows. Also, i dont personally use area light for general lighting. slower than normal lights and not needed imo.

Also, do you want to use gi or not? because of render speeds i'll use both. And i'll use the gi as a general infil backround light, NOT the main lighting.

so generally, for a gi lit internal.......

1) set up the general external lighting, ie, a sky object with a luminance channel for the general sky emitting gi. and an infinite light (with shadows) as the sun.

2) start putting in lights in your scene where there are actual lights in the design. ie, wall spots, ceiling lamps, table lights etc etc. make these lights individual omnis with falloff or distance clipping. (i'd always use far distance clipping personally). again, dont use area lights.

3) if it's too dark (it'll more than likely be too dark than too light) add 1 or 2 omni lights in the middle of the room(s), at maybe 5 or 10% strength, turned to ambient mode, with soft shadows. These are your fill in lights.

4) a ball park figure for your gi settings might be -

strength - 100
accuracy - 70
prepass - 1, 2 or 3
diffdepth - 1 (no more than 1)
stochsamps - 700+ (whatever the highest you can afford)
min - 50
max - 250 (or higher if you can afford)

thats about it. Change the lighting levels by changing the ambient omni levels, and NOT the relevant gi settings. Same applies for a non gi settup - the above instructions will work but you'll probably need more or higher infill omni ambients.

Also, gi or not, run an AO pass over it to help enhance the shadow contrasts. and dont forget your levels/curves/contrast settings in photoshop at the end either.

here are a couple of past examples i've done to show you the results of rendering internals on the AR with and without gi, using the above instructions as a guide -

WITH BACK ROUND GI ON -
 
Great, I'm seeing some sound points to begin setting up lighting. One thing I have come across and maybe this is normal. I was adding lights to a model yesterday, I since scrapped that model, but I was having difficulty telling what to anticipate because the modeling window was getting so bright. When I did a test render, it was much darker. Should I be able to get an approximation before rendering?

Thanks,
Tim


Tim,

The area lights are the squares, you could probably use point lights though. Here is a great post using Cinema 4D I found, this guys work is excellent too.
 
Not really. Set the "radiosity" samples low like 50 or 100 and do tests no larger than 640x480 to see about what you will get. Keep in mind they will be blotchy but that cleans up with more samples on the radiosity tag and light samples if needed for shadows.
 
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